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Thread started 03/20/17 9:27pm

purplerabbitho
le

edit...I apologize for JW rant. List of JW references in p's work..

I read up on one concept of JW that kind of redeemed it for me..the second resurrection, which allows for non-believers who died before the first resurrection to come back to Earth and they are given a 1000 years to redeem themselves while Jesus rules the earth and government ceases. Interesting that this religion believes that once you comply with Christian (JW teachings) you can live forever on Earth...no matter who you are or what you did in the past. (I imagine if during this first resurrection if you hurry up and convert to JW, you are fine as well.) I thought it was just exclusive to 144,000 witnesses, but it is not. It's strict and limits freedom (what qualifies as sin is closed minded), but it is forgiving ultimately.

Don't agree with it and its a bit out there, but it doesn't offend me as much as it did. Its kind of a "hate-the-sin, love-the-sinner" kind of religion which ultimately gives a second chance to all.

JW references in songs and interviews...

What seems like reincarnation in the songs "Come Back" and "Reflection" might really references to the second resurrection.

Prince's use of the word "the truth" is a direct reference to their doctrinated beliefs. JW's used that word when referring to their belief system (and he used it in the 1998 album, but he also cusses in the same song. Not sure how that works.)

Prince's live performance of 3121 in which Prince says down with the system of things, "system of things" is a common JW expression. Is 3121 about those who never leave after the second resurrection?

The JW's belief that governments are controlled essentially by Satan but that individual leaders can be good and uneffected...thus the reason Prince could say that Obama was a good man but still dislike the system of things.

[Edited 3/20/17 21:38pm]

[Edited 3/20/17 21:40pm]

[Edited 3/20/17 23:21pm]

[Edited 3/20/17 23:24pm]

[Edited 3/20/17 23:27pm]

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Reply #1 posted 03/20/17 9:33pm

Iamtheorg

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troll

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Reply #2 posted 03/20/17 9:34pm

Iamtheorg

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mods plese lock this dudes diatribe.

it does not belong on prince.org especially at this time

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Reply #3 posted 03/20/17 10:28pm

AnonymousFan

Your JW bashing and ignorance of the denomination is becoming terribly unflattering.

We get it, you hate JWs for whatever reason... something something disfellowshipped... something something cult... butthurt, etc.... Now you can stop. We're tired of hearing how evil you think JWs are and how gullible you think Prince is.

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Reply #4 posted 03/20/17 10:46pm

purplerabbitho
le

I am sorry if I offended people. I read the entire long wikipedia page on the religion. it actually scares me how strict it is on this members, exclusive and isolating it is.

However, the line underlined struck a cord with me.. so a child who died 1996 without being confirmed into his father's faith will be able to come back and get a second chance.

I think i get the appeal...

Eschatology[edit]

A central teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses is that the current world era, or "system of things", entered the "last days" in 1914 and faces imminent destruction through intervention by God and Jesus Christ, leading to deliverance for those who worship God acceptably.[193] They consider all other present-day religions to be false, identifying them with "Babylon the Great", or the "harlot", of Revelation 17,[194] and believe that they will soon be destroyed by the United Nations, which they believe is represented in scripture by the scarlet-colored wild beast of Revelation chapter 17. This development will mark the beginning of the "great tribulation".[195][196] Satan will subsequently attack Jehovah's Witnesses, an action that will prompt God to begin the war of Armageddon, during which all forms of government and all people not counted as Christ's "sheep", or true followers, will be destroyed. After Armageddon, God will extend his heavenly kingdom to include earth, which will be transformed into a paradise similar to the Garden of Eden.[197]Most of those who had died before God's intervention will gradually be resurrected during "judgment day" lasting for one thousand years. This judgment will be based on their actions after resurrection rather than past deeds. At the end of the thousand years, Christ will hand all authority back to God. Then a final test will take place when Satan is released to mislead perfect mankind. Those who fail will be destroyed, along with Satan and his demons. The end result will be a fully tested, glorified human race.[198][199]

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus Christ began to rule in heaven as king of God's kingdom in October 1914, and that Satan was subsequently ousted from heaven to the earth, resulting in "woe" to humanity. They believe that Jesus rules invisibly, from heaven, perceived only as a series of "signs". They base this belief on a rendering of the Greek word parousia—usually translated as "coming" when referring to Christ—as "presence". They believe Jesus' presence includes an unknown period beginning with his inauguration as king in heaven in 1914, and ending when he comes to bring a final judgment against humans on earth. They thus depart from the mainstream Christian belief that the "second coming" of Matthew 24 refers to a single moment of arrival

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Reply #5 posted 03/21/17 12:57am

actionthisday

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Cool story bro.

'A pillow covered in all our tears'
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Reply #6 posted 03/21/17 1:32am

purplerabbitho
le

First. i am no bro. More like 'sis'

Secondly, your tone seems to be condesending. If so, I am going to say that I am not a JW, do not support this religion (in fact, I am not a religious at all). I was just trying to understand Prince's need for this religion. The problem with this religion is not so much its dogma (no holy trinity, two resurrections). The problem is its doctrine which is fundamentalist at times, changing according to some council, exclusive, strict, and quick to excommunicate. But its the only religious that offers two resurrections for almost anyone who ever lived and eternal life on earth (which certainly works for someone who lost a child.).

Unfortunately, its an all or nothing at all religion...that is , unless you are rich pop singer who contributes monetarily. Then, dirty songs, flashy clothes, eclectic friends, and relationships outside of marriage are mysteriously not noticed.

actionthisday said:

Cool story bro.

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Reply #7 posted 03/21/17 1:46am

rap

Iamtheorg said:

mods plese lock this dudes diatribe.

it does not belong on prince.org especially at this time

Speak for yourself.

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Reply #8 posted 03/21/17 2:16am

RicoN

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purplerabbithole said:

I am sorry if I offended people. I read the entire long wikipedia page on the religion. it actually scares me how strict it is on this members, exclusive and isolating it is.

However, the line underlined struck a cord with me.. so a child who died 1996 without being confirmed into his father's faith will be able to come back and get a second chance.

I think i get the appeal...

Eschatology[edit]

A central teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses is that the current world era, or "system of things", entered the "last days" in 1914 and faces imminent destruction through intervention by God and Jesus Christ, leading to deliverance for those who worship God acceptably.[193] They consider all other present-day religions to be false, identifying them with "Babylon the Great", or the "harlot", of Revelation 17,[194] and believe that they will soon be destroyed by the United Nations, which they believe is represented in scripture by the scarlet-colored wild beast of Revelation chapter 17. This development will mark the beginning of the "great tribulation".[195][196] Satan will subsequently attack Jehovah's Witnesses, an action that will prompt God to begin the war of Armageddon, during which all forms of government and all people not counted as Christ's "sheep", or true followers, will be destroyed. After Armageddon, God will extend his heavenly kingdom to include earth, which will be transformed into a paradise similar to the Garden of Eden.[197]Most of those who had died before God's intervention will gradually be resurrected during "judgment day" lasting for one thousand years. This judgment will be based on their actions after resurrection rather than past deeds. At the end of the thousand years, Christ will hand all authority back to God. Then a final test will take place when Satan is released to mislead perfect mankind. Those who fail will be destroyed, along with Satan and his demons. The end result will be a fully tested, glorified human race.[198][199]

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus Christ began to rule in heaven as king of God's kingdom in October 1914, and that Satan was subsequently ousted from heaven to the earth, resulting in "woe" to humanity. They believe that Jesus rules invisibly, from heaven, perceived only as a series of "signs". They base this belief on a rendering of the Greek word parousia—usually translated as "coming" when referring to Christ—as "presence". They believe Jesus' presence includes an unknown period beginning with his inauguration as king in heaven in 1914, and ending when he comes to bring a final judgment against humans on earth. They thus depart from the mainstream Christian belief that the "second coming" of Matthew 24 refers to a single moment of arrival



It's no different to any other religion, purplebumhole.

Tip: there's a Politics & Religion bit where peopel might be prepared to engage you in discussing the particular quirks of the JW.

Yes, I've probably made a spelling mistake, but I can't be arsed to go back and correc tit.
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Reply #9 posted 03/21/17 2:17am

RicoN

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Iamtheorg said:

mods plese lock this dudes diatribe.

it does not belong on prince.org especially at this time



Calling for other people to be locked/blocked etc is a weird form of censorship, it's pretty low.

It's like asking the ref to send someone off.

Yes, I've probably made a spelling mistake, but I can't be arsed to go back and correc tit.
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Reply #10 posted 03/21/17 2:32am

purplerabbitho
le

Except its Prince's religion and its referenced in his song lyrics, therefore making it relevent for a Prince site.

Okay RicoNumbnuts??

RicoN said:

purplerabbithole said:

I am sorry if I offended people. I read the entire long wikipedia page on the religion. it actually scares me how strict it is on this members, exclusive and isolating it is.

However, the line underlined struck a cord with me.. so a child who died 1996 without being confirmed into his father's faith will be able to come back and get a second chance.

I think i get the appeal...



It's no different to any other religion, purplebumhole.

Tip: there's a Politics & Religion bit where peopel might be prepared to engage you in discussing the particular quirks of the JW.

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Reply #11 posted 03/21/17 2:59am

RicoN

avatar

purplerabbithole said:

Except its Prince's religion and its referenced in his song lyrics, therefore making it relevent for a Prince site.

Okay RicoNumbnuts??

RicoN said:



It's no different to any other religion, purplebumhole.

Tip: there's a Politics & Religion bit where peopel might be prepared to engage you in discussing the particular quirks of the JW.


Threads like this degenerate into theological debates that have almost nothing to do with the music though, hence the P&R bit.

and RicoNumbnuts is poor, is that the best you could do? What about PRicoN? RicuNt? Musty try harder with your comedy insults!

Yes, I've probably made a spelling mistake, but I can't be arsed to go back and correc tit.
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Reply #12 posted 03/21/17 5:55am

Dini

purplerabbithole said:

First. i am no bro. More like 'sis'

Secondly, your tone seems to be condesending. If so, I am going to say that I am not a JW, do not support this religion (in fact, I am not a religious at all). I was just trying to understand Prince's need for this religion. The problem with this religion is not so much its dogma (no holy trinity, two resurrections). The problem is its doctrine which is fundamentalist at times, changing according to some council, exclusive, strict, and quick to excommunicate. But its the only religious that offers two resurrections for almost anyone who ever lived and eternal life on earth (which certainly works for someone who lost a child.).

Unfortunately, its an all or nothing at all religion...that is , unless you are rich pop singer who contributes monetarily. Then, dirty songs, flashy clothes, eclectic friends, and relationships outside of marriage are mysteriously not noticed.

actionthisday said:

Cool story bro.

You will never understand his need for religion, as in order to do that, you would need to be in his skin. Religion and belief, is highly personal. People come to it from a variety of perspectives. Would you be questioning it so vehemently if he had adopted one of the more mainstream religions, as opposed to one described by some as a cult?

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Reply #13 posted 03/21/17 7:17am

2freaky4church
1

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Prince was no JW. They are an evil sick cult.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #14 posted 03/26/17 5:35pm

DavidSF

Is that what they're teaching these days?
Who knows. They have a history of changing doctrine.
They're false prophets and modern day Pharisees.
Jesus warned us about them.

http://piotrandryszczak.p...esses.html
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Reply #15 posted 04/08/17 3:42pm

Nanni

I agree with you DavidSF.

I do not know how deeply P was faith in the Jehovah's Witnesses, or was still in the end.

But I think it was not good for him and for his marriages.

Let me explain why I think that, I have to go for something further.

I have studied theology and philosophy and I am working on a place that deals with sects and advises drop-outs.

JW are an end sect that scares people and thus keep in line.

Even after years, people who have left, still have nightmares or fears, that what they have learned from Jehovah's Witnesses can still be true.

Jehovah's Witnesses set the rules of the Watchtower Society in their literature. Even children must adhere strictly to the rules.

It is not permissible to read things that serve the pure information. But only biblical writings issued by the Jehovah's Witnesses.

The children grow under a very strong control and under a very strong pressure. They are determined by others in their own decisions. The faith of the Jehovah's Witnesses is not so much the result of a decision of their own conscience, but the fact that the guidelines of the Watchtower Society are fulfilled. Otherwise you would die at Armageddon, like all the other people.

Faithful witnesses, will live in a paradise on earth. 144,000 people selected by Jehovah will reign with Jesus in heaven.

How do the JW know what God knows, bur not his Son or the Angels?

The Bible / Jesus says this:

Matthew 24:2 – 5;11; 36

But he, answering, said to them, See you not all these things? truly I say to you that here there will not be one stone resting on another, which will not be pulled down. And while he was seated on the Mountain of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, Make clear to us, when will these things be? and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the world? And Jesus said to them in answer, Take care that you are not tricked. For people will come in my name, saying, I am the Christ; and a number will be turned from the true way through them.

And a number of false prophets will come, causing error.

But of that day and hour no one has knowledge, not even the angels in heaven, or the Son, but the Father only.

The Bible / Jesus say about people who think they know exactly what he or Heavenly Father want. Jesus saw them coming already!

Mark 13:21 -22

And then if any man says to you, See, here is Christ; or, See, there; have no faith in it: Because there will be false Christs and false prophets, and they will give signs and wonders in the hope of turning even the saints from the true way.

Luke 21:8

And he said, Take care that you are not tricked: for a number of people will come in my name, saying, I am he; and, The time is near: do not go after them.

II Timothy 4:3 -4

For the time will come when they will not take the true teaching; but, moved by their desires, they will get for themselves a great number of teachers for the pleasure of hearing them; And shutting their ears to what is true, will be turned away to belief in foolish stories.

Matthew 24:4 - 5

And Jesus said to them in answer, Take care that you are not tricked. For people will come in my name, saying, I am the Christ; and a number will be turned from the true way through them.

Matthew 24:11

And a number of false prophets will come, causing error.

Colossians 2:18

Let no man take your reward from you by consciously making little of himself and giving worship to angels; having his thoughts fixed on the things which he has seen, being foolishly lifted up in his natural mind,

Matthew 7:21 - 23

Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will go into the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the pleasure of my Father in heaven. A great number will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, were we not prophets in your name, and did we not by your name send out evil spirits, and by your name do works of power? And then will I say to them, I never had knowledge of you: go from me, you workers of evil.

The Jehovah's Witnesses are frightened when their own members are too educated or have too much knowledge. but it is part of the study to the fact that people question things critically.

But God has given us such a big brain, so we should use it. Also to recognize false prophets.

I learned a lot from Kant! You can be a believing man, but you must not turn your mind off.

Sapere aude = Dare to be wise!

Immanuel Kant: „Have courage to use your own reason."

I know a story, fairy tale, legend ... whatever.

In a small village it rains for days and the river, near the village on the shore, threatens the village and its inhabitants destroyed. The flood rose higher and higher. The villagers say to the priest: "Sir, come with us, it's too dangerous.“ But the priest answered them, "No, I will stay here, God will save me." The water continues to rise. When it was already up to the first floor, a boat from the fire department come and the men said to the priest: "Sir, come with us, it is too dangerous That water is still rising.." But the priest replies, "No, I will stay, God save us." The water continues to rise. It is already so high that the priest sits on the roof of his church. A helicopter comes and the men throw him a ladder and say, "Sir, come! You will die otherwise! "But the priest replies," No, I will stay! God will save me. The helicopter flies away. The water continues to rise and the priest drowns. He comes to heaven and says to God, "Father, why did not you save me? I trusted you so much." God replies, "Well son, I sent you three times help and you have knocked out three times."

What I want to say with this story is that God gives every human being a talent. Some he gives the talent to heal people and to save. They will then be nurses, doctors, firefighters, policemen, etc. I think it is madness refuse medical treatment (for example, surgery or blood transfusions) because it prohibit the elders of Jehovah's Witnesses. The Church (Catholic and Evangelical) say: If the technique and the knowledge go so far as to save lives, the doctors should do all that is in their power. Man is not allowed to kill anyone or not helping someone, especially if they know that he or she could die.

I love Prince music but I do not understand why he did not go to the hospital with Mayte and did not support her during her surgery when her bleeding did not stop. He wanted to save his child's life, but not his wife's? I do not understand.

My opinion is that he got a proper brainwashing from Jehovah's Witnesses (and also from Larry Graham). Otherwise, I can not explain his behavior sometimes.

I think he would have needed a woman like June Carter in his life, which she told him where to get off. Maybe he would still be alive….

I'm sorry if it's been a bit long.

I think a lot of things have come together, which ultimately led to his premature death. And we do not know much.

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Reply #16 posted 04/09/17 5:21pm

DavidSF

Actually surgery is ok for JWs.
It's blood transfusions that are now allowed.
I do think that the tragic death of his son and dysfunctional family background are the primary reasons he became a JW. It makes you highly vulnerable and Larry Graham, a true believer, came in at the right time.
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Reply #17 posted 04/22/17 6:41am

FunkOnTheOne

2freaky4church1 said:

Prince was no JW. They are an evil sick cult.

I'm not a JW but ultimately they are simply a type of Christian like many, many others. It's very interesting to watch the US and it's religious prominence, particularly as Europe, certainly the UK, is walking very quickly away from religion.

I always find it fascinating out of the thousands of religions and then the thousands of different subsections of that religion how people are absolutely sure that the one out of tens of thousands that they choose is the 'correct' one. I undersatnd if people say it just works for them, but that's a world away from saying that only one of them is right and they know that. Also, what was the 'correct' religion before the one you follow was created?

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Reply #18 posted 04/22/17 9:14am

Pokeno4Money

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FunkOnTheOne said:


I always find it fascinating out of the thousands of religions and then the thousands of different subsections of that religion how people are absolutely sure that the one out of tens of thousands that they choose is the 'correct' one. I undersatnd if people say it just works for them, but that's a world away from saying that only one of them is right and they know that. Also, what was the 'correct' religion before the one you follow was created?


I think that's more a situation where they are reinforcing their beliefs and proving their devotion to "their" God.

It's like when citizens of most countries call "their" country the greatest in the world. It's not out of arrogance, it's more an affirmation for them.

"As a team, we have chosen to stand and interlock arms in unity. We honor those who have fought for the freedom we cherish. And we stand to ensure the riches and freedom and the security of justice for all people." --- Doug Baldwin
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Reply #19 posted 04/30/17 4:57pm

Asenath0607

2freaky4church1 said:

Prince was no JW. They are an evil sick cult.

If you don't mind the question; how do you know this?

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Reply #20 posted 05/06/17 10:35pm

DavidSF

Asenath0607 said:



2freaky4church1 said:


Prince was no JW. They are an evil sick cult.


If you don't mind the question; how do you know this?



Look at the way he acted. His lifestyle.
A lot of people say they're a part of some religion but they're not. For example a some of criminals, gangsters, mafia types say they're catholic. Terrorists e.g. Osama bin laden say they're Muslim. Etc.
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Reply #21 posted 05/07/17 4:22am

Pokeno4Money

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DavidSF said:

Asenath0607 said:

Look at the way he acted. His lifestyle. A lot of people say they're a part of some religion but they're not. For example a some of criminals, gangsters, mafia types say they're catholic. Terrorists e.g. Osama bin laden say they're Muslim. Etc.


Not being willing or able to follow every "rule" of their religion does not disqualify one from being able to call that religion theirs. Nobody is perfect, regardless of what religion.

"As a team, we have chosen to stand and interlock arms in unity. We honor those who have fought for the freedom we cherish. And we stand to ensure the riches and freedom and the security of justice for all people." --- Doug Baldwin
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Reply #22 posted 05/12/17 10:08pm

DavidSF

Pokeno4Money said:



DavidSF said:


Asenath0607 said:


Look at the way he acted. His lifestyle. A lot of people say they're a part of some religion but they're not. For example a some of criminals, gangsters, mafia types say they're catholic. Terrorists e.g. Osama bin laden say they're Muslim. Etc.



Not being willing or able to follow every "rule" of their religion does not disqualify one from being able to call that religion theirs. Nobody is perfect, regardless of what religion.



He could call himself whatever he wanted.
Any other person calling himself a JW living his lifestyle would have been kicked out.
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Reply #23 posted 05/13/17 5:35am

Pokeno4Money

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DavidSF said:

Pokeno4Money said:


Not being willing or able to follow every "rule" of their religion does not disqualify one from being able to call that religion theirs. Nobody is perfect, regardless of what religion.

He could call himself whatever he wanted. Any other person calling himself a JW living his lifestyle would have been kicked out.


I don't disagree that he probably had more leeway because of his ability to attract others to the religion.

"As a team, we have chosen to stand and interlock arms in unity. We honor those who have fought for the freedom we cherish. And we stand to ensure the riches and freedom and the security of justice for all people." --- Doug Baldwin
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