Believe facts, not genitals.

So after the 7th FBI investigation revealed to us what we already know about now JUSTICE KAVANAUGH and cleared his name, we should talk about the dangers of simply 'automatically believing women' just because they're a WOMAN and accussing a man.

Not only is this narrative hysterically illogical, it's offensive. When a man says something, you think about what he says and look at all the facts to come to a conclusion. When a woman says something, she is automatically blindly believed. This is BS. It's emotional manipulatiion.

You notice these kind of women who lie about sexual assault only come out with these claims once whoever their accusing is now someone important.

This position isn't just only held by men across the nation. It's also held by self-respecting strong women also who absoultely reject the idea of weaponizing victimhood.

If we're going to look at another example of this lunacy, let's take a look at the Emmett Till case. In 1955, a 14 year old Black boy dared to talk to a White woman in a neghborhood that didn't welcome his kind; so it was easy for the woman to falsely point her finger at him. She accused him of sexaul harrassment and got an angry mob of White Knights to brutally torture and lynch him.

Decades later, on the woman's death bed, she admitted that she lied.

She was able to rally up a mob just by a few accusations with no evidence and without going to the police. It's called manipulation. And in this day and age, it happens all the time. Only except they don't brutally murder you, they take away your job, your wife, your kids and ultimately ruin your life.

Do all sexual assault accusers need to be listened to? Sure. But let's not blindly believe them without any evidence when people blindly disbelieve a man's accusations a lot more often just because their genitalia dangles.

It's called due process. It's "innocent until proven guilty" in this country, not the other way around.

But here's the thing. If Democrats keep embracing this illogical ridiculousness, then they're gonna become the party of stuck-up, angry women and their white knights and they'll just keep on losing.

Young boys all across the nation witnessed what could happen to them in 10, 20, 30 years or so later. This insanity coming from the establishment Democraps and the MSM telling men they have no due process whenever a woman accuses them of sexual assault. So don't think for one second that Generation Z won't be mostly Conservative, because they're already the most logical generation since WW2.

[Edited 10/6/18 21:56pm]

[Snip - luv4u]

Someone got in my face over this. All mad that I did not think such a claim was enough. She said, "what if it was your daughter?!" I said, "What if it was your son?" She could say nothing more.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Someone got in my face over this. All mad that I did not think such a claim was enough. She said, "what if it was your daughter?!" I said, "What if it was your son?" She could say nothing more.

They're unhinged.

From what I've learned from debating public crybabies and challenging their ideas: avoid these kind of people as much as possible. They don't respond to reason or facts. They're just a sad bunch.

And there you have it - People driven FIRST by Republican an far right politics are rolling out all the examples of possible false claims of sexual abuse to justify this decision.

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What you wont see them talk about is the proportion of proven false claims to claims that are found to be absolutely true or merely dismissed due insufficient evidence.

Due process, like free speech, is a cornerstone of freedom. Always resist those that advocate abandoning these principles.

[Edited 10/6/18 22:38pm]

djThunderfunk said:

Due process, like free speech, is a cornerstone of freedom. Always resist those that are advocate abandoning these principles.

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A key principle of due process is that it protects the rights of both parties whilst ensuring minimum false positives or negatives. It means that the due process properly protects the alleged victims as much as the alleged perpetrators. This means the due processes take into account circumstances where the victim has allegedly been abused.

IanRG said:

djThunderfunk said:

Due process, like free speech, is a cornerstone of freedom. Always resist those that are advocate abandoning these principles.

.

A key principle of due process is that it protects the rights of both parties whilst ensuring minimum false positives or negatives. It means that the due process properly protects the alleged victims as much as the alleged perpetrators. This means the due processes take into account circumstances where the victim has allegedly been abused.

Another key part is that the accused is innocent until PROVEN guilty. Proof requires corroborating evidence and/or witnesses.

"There has to be proof. Period"

"Buh, buh, buh WAHMEN!!!"

djThunderfunk said:

djThunderfunk said:

IanRG said:

.

A key principle of due process is that it protects the rights of both parties whilst ensuring minimum false positives or negatives. It means that the due process properly protects the alleged victims as much as the alleged perpetrators. This means the due processes take into account circumstances where the victim has allegedly been abused.

Another key part is that the accused is innocent until PROVEN guilty. Proof requires corroborating evidence and/or witnesses.

.

Agreed - for a court case. But due process with the accused being considered innocent of the charges until proven guilty is reliant on the due process enabling this to be proven or disproven. The hearing and abbreviated limited quick look at possible evidence by FBI in regards to Ford certainly was not the equivalent of a court's due process.

maplenpg said:

djThunderfunk said:

Another key part is that the accused is innocent until PROVEN guilty. Proof requires corroborating evidence and/or witnesses.

Not having proof that an event happened doesn't necessarily entail that the event didn't happen. Relish in your delight. I'm out.

Of course it doesn't mean it didn't happen, but it is necessary to to declare that it did.

Relish in what delight?

IanRG said:

djThunderfunk said:

Another key part is that the accused is innocent until PROVEN guilty. Proof requires corroborating evidence and/or witnesses.

.

Agreed - for a court case. But due process with the accused being considered innocent of the charges until proven guilty is reliant on the due process enabling this to be proven or disproven. The hearing and abbreviated limited quick look at possible evidence by FBI in regards to Ford certainly was not the equivalent of a court's due process.

I was speaking in general terms, not about Ford, there are already a few threads for that. I was under the impression this thread was about the concept itself, not another about the Kavanaugh case explicitly. If that's what this is, I'm out.

PurpleSkipper58 said:

Believe facts, not genitals.

[Edited 10/6/18 21:56pm]

I thought you were gone from here?

djThunderfunk said:

IanRG said:

.

Agreed - for a court case. But due process with the accused being considered innocent of the charges until proven guilty is reliant on the due process enabling this to be proven or disproven. The hearing and abbreviated limited quick look at possible evidence by FBI in regards to Ford certainly was not the equivalent of a court's due process.

I was speaking in general terms, not about Ford, there are already a few threads for that. I was under the impression this thread was about the concept itself, not another about the Kavanaugh case explicitly. If that's what this is, I'm out.

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I am happy for it not to be about Ford, even though the last part of the OP was a reference to Conservatives supporting the statements by Trump in defence of Kavanaugh.

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My comment still stands: Due Process is reliant on enabling the victim in a court case to prove guilt or innocence in a way that does properly prevent false negatives and false positives without placing undue pressures on the victim that will prevent them reporting abuse and receiving justice - even in the very small number of cases where the actual victim is the falsely accused.

IanRG said:

djThunderfunk said:

I was speaking in general terms, not about Ford, there are already a few threads for that. I was under the impression this thread was about the concept itself, not another about the Kavanaugh case explicitly. If that's what this is, I'm out.

.

I am happy for it not to be about Ford, even though the last part of the OP was a reference to Conservatives supporting the statements by Trump in defence of Kavanaugh.

.

My comment still stands: Due Process is reliant on enabling the victim in a court case to prove guilt or innocence in a way that does properly prevent false negatives and false positives without placing undue pressures on the victim that will prevent them reporting abuse and receiving justice - even in the very small number of cases where the actual victim is the falsely accused.

What prevented her from reporting any abuse the last 30 years? NOTHING.

No witnesses. No evidence. Nothing. Just a bunch of BS. I'm so glad President Trump didn't back down and bend over to authoritarian's demands. He's not some cuckservative, he actually has a backbone. And Republicans in DC are finally growing balls thanks to Trump. So you're going to see Republicans win a lot more elections. Get used to it.

Now back on topic. Lying women deserve prison.

PurpleSkipper58 said:

IanRG said:

.

I am happy for it not to be about Ford, even though the last part of the OP was a reference to Conservatives supporting the statements by Trump in defence of Kavanaugh.

.

My comment still stands: Due Process is reliant on enabling the victim in a court case to prove guilt or innocence in a way that does properly prevent false negatives and false positives without placing undue pressures on the victim that will prevent them reporting abuse and receiving justice - even in the very small number of cases where the actual victim is the falsely accused.

What prevented her from reporting any abuse the last 30 years? NOTHING.

No witnesses. No evidence. Nothing. Just a bunch of BS. I'm so glad President Trump didn't back down and bend over to authoritarian's demands. He's not some cuckservative, he actually has a backbone. And Republicans in DC are finally growing balls thanks to Trump. So you're going to see Republicans win a lot more elections. Get used to it.

Now back on topic. Lying women deserve prison.

Have you seen the way you've reacted to her and treated her since she reported? This is exactly why women do not report. Because we know there are assholes out there that would demean the woman in order to support the man. Because we know there are idiots out there that will accuse the woman of doing nothing more than trying to ruin a man's life. AND not once do they ever consider what was done to the woman's life.

PurpleSkipper58 said:

IanRG said:

.

I am happy for it not to be about Ford, even though the last part of the OP was a reference to Conservatives supporting the statements by Trump in defence of Kavanaugh.

.

My comment still stands: Due Process is reliant on enabling the victim in a court case to prove guilt or innocence in a way that does properly prevent false negatives and false positives without placing undue pressures on the victim that will prevent them reporting abuse and receiving justice - even in the very small number of cases where the actual victim is the falsely accused.

What prevented her from reporting any abuse the last 30 years? NOTHING.

No witnesses. No evidence. Nothing. Just a bunch of BS. I'm so glad President Trump didn't back down and bend over to authoritarian's demands. He's not some cuckservative, he actually has a backbone. And Republicans in DC are finally growing balls thanks to Trump. So you're going to see Republicans win a lot more elections. Get used to it.

Now back on topic. Lying women deserve prison.

.

What prevented her from reporting the abuse is people like you and President Trump. I was sexually abused as an adolecent and I can tell you from personal experience and from talking to the police, councillors and the people involved with the Australian Royal Commission into the institutional response to childhood sexual abuse that it is perfectly normal for it to take more than 20 years for the survivor to be in a position to report this. This is because people like you see more necessity to protect the people and institutions responsible then address the crime. People like you have no idea about how sexual abuse can affect a person or how bringing this up in public is such a hard and dangerous thing.

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Trump has no backbone, he is protecting himself as much as anyone.

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I am not from the US. I don't care who you elect because the next President you elect will almost certainly be better than Trump regardless of which party they are from.

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It woud be good if Ford is able to go through a real court case on this because, as the result is not simply dependent on mostly old men protecting one of their own, it is far more likely that the outcome of this would result in a proper accounting of the crimes of Kavanaugh than any crimes by Ford.

benni said:

I don't think people need to be believed without evidence (although christ, how many people have been sent to jail based solely on a single cop's testimony with no evidence?) but I think your supreme court has such power that if several people are coming out against someone and there's a fair bit of circumstancial evidence backing it up then the likes of Kavanaugh shouldn't be allowed on it.

You're a country of hundreds of millions of people, you can find someone better than him for a position for life, you've had just over 100 supreme court justices since day one, he ain't entitled to the job because he feels he is. I think it's fair to say that anyone who wants to join that club should be pretty blemish free. At the same time i'm not saying he's guilty of a crime and should be thrown in jail, he already has an amazing amount of power in his current job, just don't give him a promotion already.

Anyway, it's too late now, enjoy your country while it lasts.

[Edited 10/7/18 4:18am]

Sex robots?

SuperFurryAnimal said:

One of the world's most famous sex robots can now revoke consent:

PurpleSkipper58 said:

"There has to be proof. Period"

"Buh, buh, buh WAHMEN!!!"

are you 5 years old?

Wow, this country is really simplifying. First, it was guns:

You're either with the shooters or you're with the victims.

Now, it's sexual assault:

You're either with the assaulters, or you're with the victims.

Some people don't think there's a difference betweem the two parties but I think we can all see that there is.

Men rape, not women you dummies. Women tell the truth more often. And they smell good.

RodeoSchro said:

Wow, this country is really simplifying. First, it was guns:

You're either with the shooters or you're with the victims.

Now, it's sexual assault:

You're either with the assaulters, or you're with the victims.

Some people don't think there's a difference betweem the two parties but I think we can all see that there is.

Must be great to live in this fantasyland you've conjured up in your mind where everything is black or white. Those of us in the real world know that life is not so simple.

The Prince is simple speaks. haha.