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Thread started 06/17/17 7:03pm

luvgirl

The Way Dez Dickerson Tells It, He Felt Vanity Stole Prince Away From Him And The Band!

I just finished reading Dez Dickerson's "My Time With Prince" and It was a nice read (apart from the blatant animosity towards Vanity that is....) Where better to get the official accounts of what happened in that era with Prince than from one of the person that actually lived it? No second and third hand accounts or hearsay... (like certain other books out there...) Dez had me laughing out loud with the way he went about telling some of the antics that took place in the Prince camp. He had me emotional when he talked about Big Chick's last year alive, knowing he was dying... But he had me stunned and annoyed when he blatantly blamed Vanity for being the major cause of separating Prince from him and the band! Talk about some serious animosity coming from Dez and the band towards her! Seriously... No love lost there. I knew things were fishy when in the beginning of the book, everyone was thanked from that era (including Susan Moonsie, and Jill jones) but no Vanity...

Dez implied that when Vanity came on the scene, she was the cause of the growing separation between Prince and the band. Due to a number of activities Prince would undertake alone with Vanity, the band felt disrespected, ignored and resentful. There were a few incidents that he felt were directly the result of Vanity's influence, but the first to create a major fissure and one that Dez took very personally came when instead of appearing with the band on the cover of Rolling Stones (the ones who deserved the recognition, Dez thought) Prince instead chose to grace the cover with Vanity. Dez and the band were crushed and furious and felt betrayed. This started Dez's rapidly increasing attitude towards Prince and his resentment towards Vanity...

"Rolling Stone was finally going to bestow its highest honor on Prince - a cover story. All his, and the bands, hard work had paid off, and he was now considered a star worthy enough to grace the cover of the worlds #1 music entertainment magazine. Fantastic right? Wrong - we found out that, instead of sharing this moment with the folks that had labored long and hard right by his side to help him get there, he took Vanity to New York to appear in the cover photo shot with him. I was crushed and then furious...."

Another episode that added to Dez and the band's animosity towards her, was the fact that when Vanity showed up, Prince who used to travel with the band on the same tour bus, suddenly stopped traveling with them to travel on his own tour bus with Vanity and a skeleton crew... It caused an uproar to say the least...

I know Jill Jones stated that all the girls traveled on the same bus at one point, but there was a time when it was only Prince and Vanity that traveled on his tour bus. And to put it mildly, It did not go over well with Dez and the band! This, along with many other slights from Prince that they felt were a direct result of Vanity's sudden appearance in his life, caused resentments abound...

"I became increasingly irritated with Denise / Vanity. She had been brazen in her opportunism, I saw her positioning herself with Prince to the exclusion and detriment of those who were there and had been loyal before her. That kind of manipulation has always been a personal pet peeve of mine." Wow, these are the kind of words that hurts like a fist... eek


I remember reading another book (although I can't remember the name) that pretty much aligns with what Dez says here, as well as added a bit more insight. The band thought Vanity coerced Prince into getting his own tour bus and in turn separated Prince from the band. Another interesting notation that came from that book, was how Vanity had left Prince's tour bus. At one point Vanity was barely speaking to Prince and refused to travel on the same bus with him any longer, and then enlisted to travel on the bus with Susan Moonsie and Jill Jones instead. That is how Vanity ended up on the tour bus of rotating Prince girls after being the one to share the bus with Prince...

I thought the writing was clear when Dez couldn't help but take one last swipe at Vanity in a whining verification of how he felt a few sentences before the book came to it's conclusion. "Even at the height of my anger over some of what had happened on the tour... (like when he decided to take Vanity to the American Music award and not the band!) I still wanted to believe in the potential of what we could still accomplish together." Lol, I thought..., "Dez, let it go. The book is over..." lol

On a side note, I will add that Dez seemed like he was trying to convey that he had closure with Vanity since then, but I'm not sure... You decide. This is what he had to say about it. "(Note: since then, Denise has become a born again Christian as well, and we've talked - that was then, this is now...)"

Having said all that. Does anyone else think Dez was justified in his irritation with Vanity? Was Vanity to blame or was Dez out of line for thinking Vanity had such a hold on Prince that she could manipulate him to the exclusion of his own Bandmates? I'll post my thoughts in the first post.
[Edited 6/18/17 6:56am]

Some quotation snipped - lange bleu - moderator
I just want you here, I just want you near me baby, cause I'm scared I'll cry, I love you like crazy.
~RIP~
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Reply #1 posted 06/17/17 7:08pm

LBrent

So Vanity was Yoko?...Really?

Dez gets an honorary Purple Harem Registration ID for being such a whiny lil b*tch!

confused

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Reply #2 posted 06/17/17 7:18pm

luvgirl

Here are my thoughts:

How could Dez Blame it on Vanity? (Pun intended lol) Prince was a big boy and the one who was hell bent on having Vanity in his life and making her a star. He was the one who pursued her until she caved and moved to Minneapolis to date and collaborate with him. He was the one that chose to exclude the band from riding with him on his tour bus. As stated in his book, "Prince suddenly stopped traveling with the band and got his own private bus where he, Vanity, Chick and fragnoli would travel on it, while the rest of the band stayed together on the other bus. (A) This did little but create another reason to grumble, (B) and an unrestricted place to grumble in." Clearly Prince's decision...

It was also his decision to feature her on the cover of Rolling Stone instead of the band, and his choice to share the spotlight with her at the AMA. It was even his choice as a man to spend time and be closer with one of his girlfriends than he was with his bandmates, and to help her with her dream of becoming a star... I doubt anyone including Vanity could have manipulated Prince into doing anything he didn't want to do. What little credit Dez gave him... And how dare Dez put such a blame on her!

I came to the realization that this is the reason why none of Prince's former associates ever had anything nice to say about Vanity in all those books that are out there. Instead they try to belittle her as much as possible. From the band with Dez, down to the Revolutions, Susan Rogers, Roy Bennett, and even Matt Fink tried to put her down saying "The Vanities and the Apollonias bothered me, I thought he could be producing extremely talented people, not people who were there for their looks rather than their singing.” I always wondered why none of his associates seemed to like her. Now I think I understand. They were envious of the close attention that Prince allotted to her and judged her unfairly because of it. They thought she didn't deserve it, but they never gave the girl a chance. Even after she proved herself. I can only imagine the antipathy she was subjected to when on top of all this, Prince made her the female lead in purple Rain as well. (Jill Jones comment comes to mind about the jealousy she saw that was directed at Vanity from all quarters.) For one of her rivals to admit that was powerful...

People can try to belittle her all they want, but even though I agree that one of the reasons Prince situated Vanity around him musically was because he wanted her in his life as a lover, I don't doubt the fact that Prince was moved by her charisma and saw star potential within her that he knew would galvanize the masses. Which it did.... Prince was justified when she took America by storm with her beauty and the hit Nasty Girl and had people like Berry Gordy and others in the entertainment industry vying for her attention. He succeeded in his endouver to make her a star, which is more than a lot of the people who try to put her down can say... She succeeded as well on her own, doing cult classic movies like "The Last Dragon", "Never Too Young To Die" and much more before fame got the best of her and she walked away from it all.

Roy Bennett mentioned in Alex Hahn's book that Prince was supposedly closer with Susan Moonsie than with Vanity. Knowing the animosity most felt about her from that era, and with the kind of uproar she caused in the band - along with her admission that her and Prince were so close it was frightening - and Prince's own admission on how much they used to love each other, I seriously doubt Roy Bennett's statement... It's interesting that Dez would also go on to state that Roy's wife Brenda Bennett from Vanity Six did not get along with Vanity at all. At one point it even turned to physical violence. Roy Bennett's statement could have easily been colored by his wife's influence. I can't help but feel like everyone's view of Vanity is tainted with malice from back then, if Dez's admission in this book is any indication...eek
[Edited 7/5/17 8:27am]
I just want you here, I just want you near me baby, cause I'm scared I'll cry, I love you like crazy.
~RIP~
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Reply #3 posted 06/17/17 7:20pm

luvgirl

LBrent said:

So Vanity was Yoko?...Really?



Dez gets an honorary Purple Harem Registration ID for being such a whiny lil b*tch!



confused




Purple Harem Registaration ID... falloff
[Edited 6/17/17 19:32pm]
I just want you here, I just want you near me baby, cause I'm scared I'll cry, I love you like crazy.
~RIP~
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Reply #4 posted 06/17/17 8:38pm

LBrent

Sooo, P wanting to spend private time with his girlfriend was a problem?

I liked V and Matt made a point about P spending time with...modestly talented gals he was wooing...but whatever...The bands, all of them were acting like he was their private property.

Ok, so P had a penchant for pretty, humbly talented gals...So?

W&L had each other, and I'm guessing the rest had significant others...

P simply was trying to have a romantic life...Sheesh

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Reply #5 posted 06/17/17 8:55pm

80tomato

i do think the band should have been on the cover of the magazine though...something to be proud of and to show to your grandkids...i would have felt pissed off also

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Reply #6 posted 06/17/17 9:18pm

OldFriends4Sal
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80tomato said:

i do think the band should have been on the cover of the magazine though...something to be proud of and to show to your grandkids...i would have felt pissed off also

Right, did they have 'a' photo in the magazine? Vanity 6 did.

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #7 posted 06/17/17 9:56pm

SoulAlive

Vanity was his lady at the time.It's normal that he would want to shower her with alot of attention and love.Dez's complaint actually reminds me of BrownMark complaining about Wendy a few years later....

"I believe in seniority.I was in the band since '81,but Wendy comes into the band and he makes her an instant star.She gets all these lines in the movie and appears on the cover of Rolling Stone with him"

hmmm

.

[Edited 6/17/17 21:58pm]

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Reply #8 posted 06/17/17 10:55pm

LBrent

SoulAlive said:

Vanity was his lady at the time.It's normal that he would want to shower her with alot of attention and love.Dez's complaint actually reminds me of BrownMark complaining about Wendy a few years later....

"I believe in seniority.I was in the band since '81,but Wendy comes into the band and he makes her an instant star.She gets all these lines in the movie and appears on the cover of Rolling Stone with him"

hmmm

.

[Edited 6/17/17 21:58pm]

I forgot about his b*tchy whining...

BrownMarks honorary Purple Harem ID is being registered and expedited so he won't feel left out anymore.

wink

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Reply #9 posted 06/18/17 4:25am

cbarnes3121

the way i see it from the revoultion anc backward they were all arrogant and thought they deserved so much u look at the people later in his life they like the npg he was with before his death they never spoke ill of any other people they were full of love and respresented that. brownmark saying he wrote kiss and ll that allt of stuff they are saying now they never spoke word of while he was alive and now they all talk as if prince was the protehe and they made him

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Reply #10 posted 06/18/17 5:34am

Vashtix

LBrent said:

Sooo, P wanting to spend private time with his girlfriend was a problem?

I liked V and Matt made a point about P spending time with...modestly talented gals he was wooing...but whatever...The bands, all of them were acting like he was their private property.

Ok, so P had a penchant for pretty, humbly talented gals...So?

W&L had each other, and I'm guessing the rest had significant others...

P simply was trying to have a romantic life...Sheesh

Prince did have many protoges. Vanity was not like the others though. She was beautiful, not he greatest singer ut she had something the others did not have.

Vanity was wooed from the Prince camp by big names in Hollywood. Martin Scorcese, Barry Gordy, Spielberg, etc. She had that IT factor. By the time she crossed paths with Prince she had already modeled overseas, did playboy,and made 2 movies.

She left P's camp made more movies, 3 albums

(http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0889152/?ref_=nm_pub)

None of his"other pretty , humbly talented" Protoges had her success. She was a trailblazer, wearing laced gloves and strategically covered gowns/clothes before Madonna, Britney, & JLO.

Granted Prince gave her a stage to be seen but he did thtat with many people over the years . However, she took full advantage and did not go about pimping the Prince connection for her income. Never dragged Prince or the women with him publicly, never ever blamed her time with Prince for any of her problems, never inserted herself as more important than she was to Prince and went on to make a difference in the world as preaching the Word of God.

She cannot be thrown in with the other women she was in a totally different sphere.

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Reply #11 posted 06/18/17 7:03am

OldFriends4Sal
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Vashtix said:

LBrent said:

Sooo, P wanting to spend private time with his girlfriend was a problem?

I liked V and Matt made a point about P spending time with...modestly talented gals he was wooing...but whatever...The bands, all of them were acting like he was their private property.

Ok, so P had a penchant for pretty, humbly talented gals...So?

W&L had each other, and I'm guessing the rest had significant others...

P simply was trying to have a romantic life...Sheesh

Prince did have many protoges. Vanity was not like the others though. She was beautiful, not he greatest singer ut she had something the others did not have.

Vanity was wooed from the Prince camp by big names in Hollywood. Martin Scorcese, Barry Gordy, Spielberg, etc. She had that IT factor. By the time she crossed paths with Prince she had already modeled overseas, did playboy,and made 2 movies.

She left P's camp made more movies, 3 albums

(http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0889152/?ref_=nm_pub)

None of his"other pretty , humbly talented" Protoges had her success. She was a trailblazer, wearing laced gloves and strategically covered gowns/clothes before Madonna, Britney, & JLO.

Granted Prince gave her a stage to be seen but he did thtat with many people over the years . However, she took full advantage and did not go about pimping the Prince connection for her income. Never dragged Prince or the women with him publicly, never ever blamed her time with Prince for any of her problems, never inserted herself as more important than she was to Prince and went on to make a difference in the world as preaching the Word of God.

She cannot be thrown in with the other women she was in a totally different sphere.

I agree,

Prince should have formed a backing band for Vanity 6 and let them have at it

Dez has talent for sure but what he lacks Vanity owns and that is Charisma

Sheila E is another huge talent, but she never had the charisma Vanity had from 1984-1986

it took her a while to develop what Vanity had naturally.

That is why when U C her first walk through that door in the Nasty Girls video it is all over.
That is why that cover of the Rolling Stones Magazine is till one of the most popular

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #12 posted 06/18/17 7:11am

OldFriends4Sal
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cbarnes3121 said:

the way i see it from the revoultion anc backward they were all arrogant and thought they deserved so much u look at the people later in his life they like the npg he was with before his death they never spoke ill of any other people they were full of love and respresented that. brownmark saying he wrote kiss and ll that allt of stuff they are saying now they never spoke word of while he was alive and now they all talk as if prince was the protehe and they made him

You don't know what those latter people felt. 'full of love' many of them did not have personal/emotional relationships with Prince the way others did. And yes Elisa Fiorillo did go on the attack toward Shelby directly and everyone, it seems, doing interviews or performing music about Prince. http://prince.org/msg/5/443226

The whole Kiss discussion has been talked about way before Prince died. BrownMark had a big hand it what became Kiss, yes he did. I don't think he meant he actually wrote the whole song. And he never talked as if he made Prince. One of his first interviews that he went further in speaking than I've ever heard, was while Prince was alive 2.15.2015:

I don't say we collaborated as much as the Revolution tried to live out his dream, we got into the mind of Prince we learned what it was he was trying to accomplish. So I think that was more the collaboration, us learning 'what is it you're looking for?'
and once we could see his direction, we would jam so much, we would sometimes jam from 10 o'clock in the morning to 10 o'clock at night. I remember sometimes eating lunch while I'm still playing. I would walk to the lunchroom with my bass because it was on a wireless rig and then I would go into the refrigerator grab food and come back and I'd still be playing with one hand while eating. That's how intense we were, and I think from that we helped Prince create not only a style and energy but it was almost like a freight train, it was so heavy that even when other musicians would come and stand up with us they didn't even know where to begin, it was very difficult for them to hang with us because the style that we developed was so powerful and was so rhythmic that uh they didn't know how to jam with us. It was a very interesting time period, but I think I think a lot of music came from that type of grooving and jamming together

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #13 posted 06/18/17 7:26am

OldFriends4Sal
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LBrent said:

SoulAlive said:

Vanity was his lady at the time.It's normal that he would want to shower her with alot of attention and love.Dez's complaint actually reminds me of BrownMark complaining about Wendy a few years later....

"I believe in seniority.I was in the band since '81,but Wendy comes into the band and he makes her an instant star.She gets all these lines in the movie and appears on the cover of Rolling Stone with him"

hmmm

.

[Edited 6/17/17 21:58pm]

I forgot about his b*tchy whining...

BrownMarks honorary Purple Harem ID is being registered and expedited so he won't feel left out anymore.

wink

I think it is really from what place he is coming from. He has a right to talk about what things were like at times for him without it being bitchy.

.

I get it. I would have loved to see/hear more of what Prince created via a synergy with BrownMark the bassist, same with others. We know in general we've learned that for whatever reason Prince lets down his vulnerable walls more with women.

.

And it is also clear that BrownMark wasn't directing any ill will toward Wendy.

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #14 posted 06/18/17 7:28am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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SoulAlive said:

Vanity was his lady at the time.It's normal that he would want to shower her with alot of attention and love.Dez's complaint actually reminds me of BrownMark complaining about Wendy a few years later....

"I believe in seniority.I was in the band since '81,but Wendy comes into the band and he makes her an instant star.She gets all these lines in the movie and appears on the cover of Rolling Stone with him"

hmmm

.

[Edited 6/17/17 21:58pm]

But I can also understand from Dez view point, how 'distracted' Prince could have been. Dr Fink said something similar.
And I don't think these guys are slouches as far as the music went

.

This all also goes into connection with the Time. If you look at the amount of promotion Vanity 6 got over the Time, it is clearly uneven.

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #15 posted 06/18/17 7:32am

Vashtix

OldFriends4Sale said:

SoulAlive said:

Vanity was his lady at the time.It's normal that he would want to shower her with alot of attention and love.Dez's complaint actually reminds me of BrownMark complaining about Wendy a few years later....

"I believe in seniority.I was in the band since '81,but Wendy comes into the band and he makes her an instant star.She gets all these lines in the movie and appears on the cover of Rolling Stone with him"

hmmm

.

[Edited 6/17/17 21:58pm]

But I can also understand from Dez view point, how 'distracted' Prince could have been. Dr Fink said something similar.
And I don't think these guys are slouches as far as the music went

.

This all also goes into connection with the Time. If you look at the amount of promotion Vanity 6 got over the Time, it is clearly uneven.

The time were formidable though ; they just had everything. Vanity 6 was not even close to what the time were back then.

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Reply #16 posted 06/18/17 8:23am

purplegirl00

SoulAlive said:

Vanity was his lady at the time.It's normal that he would want to shower her with alot of attention and love.Dez's complaint actually reminds me of BrownMark complaining about Wendy a few years later....

"I believe in seniority.I was in the band since '81,but Wendy comes into the band and he makes her an instant star.She gets all these lines in the movie and appears on the cover of Rolling Stone with him"

hmmm

.

[Edited 6/17/17 21:58pm]

Exactly. Not only was he working to launch her career further, but she was also his girlfriend. Due to both of those things, he probably felt it necessary to be spending more time and attention on her. hmmm Prince's creative work was not compromised; he was still on point with everything while he was having a relationship with/ dating her (juggling a few of the other women too). I often wonder how the man was able to pull off all these things at once. If Dez’s paycheck was not compromised in any way, then what was the beef about?

I’m sure Dez and the other bandmembers felt that Vanity was a waste of time, but she was well on her way before Prince and the exposure he gave her through V6 really put her out there. When she left, she went on to other projects- two solo albums, a string of movies, and shows. So for her to be discounted and the bandmembers to be annoyed that Prince was spending too much time with/ on her because she wasn't more than a pretty face, was off the mark.

He chose Vanity to be on the cover of RS with him- probably because again, she was his girlfriend and that's what he wanted. He was the boss. And look, it turned out to be the best decision as 30+ years later, it's iconic and still talked about.

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Reply #17 posted 06/18/17 8:56am

luvgirl

I think the reason Prince paid more attention to Vanity Six than The Time was because he felt more attuned to the vision he had for Vanity than he did for the Time or even his own band. Vanity was his muse and lover and that alone would have inspired in him the type of effort and drive it would take to expose her to the stratosphere he felt she could go. He believed in her. He knew she had it, because she energized the vision in him. He simply went with what his heart told him. Hence the reason she became the focal point of his exposition and the reason he placed her as female lead in Purple Rain before things went astray. It's fair to say that the fact that she was his lover played a part in the drive, but being his lover and muse activated an intuition he felt she could bring to light.
[Edited 6/18/17 10:28am]
I just want you here, I just want you near me baby, cause I'm scared I'll cry, I love you like crazy.
~RIP~
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Reply #18 posted 06/18/17 8:58am

cbarnes3121

OldFriends4Sale said:

cbarnes3121 said:

the way i see it from the revoultion anc backward they were all arrogant and thought they deserved so much u look at the people later in his life they like the npg he was with before his death they never spoke ill of any other people they were full of love and respresented that. brownmark saying he wrote kiss and ll that allt of stuff they are saying now they never spoke word of while he was alive and now they all talk as if prince was the protehe and they made him

You don't know what those latter people felt. 'full of love' many of them did not have personal/emotional relationships with Prince the way others did. And yes Elisa Fiorillo did go on the attack toward Shelby directly and everyone, it seems, doing interviews or performing music about Prince. http://prince.org/msg/5/443226

The whole Kiss discussion has been talked about way before Prince died. BrownMark had a big hand it what became Kiss, yes he did. I don't think he meant he actually wrote the whole song. And he never talked as if he made Prince. One of his first interviews that he went further in speaking than I've ever heard, was while Prince was alive 2.15.2015:

I don't say we collaborated as much as the Revolution tried to live out his dream, we got into the mind of Prince we learned what it was he was trying to accomplish. So I think that was more the collaboration, us learning 'what is it you're looking for?'
and once we could see his direction, we would jam so much, we would sometimes jam from 10 o'clock in the morning to 10 o'clock at night. I remember sometimes eating lunch while I'm still playing. I would walk to the lunchroom with my bass because it was on a wireless rig and then I would go into the refrigerator grab food and come back and I'd still be playing with one hand while eating. That's how intense we were, and I think from that we helped Prince create not only a style and energy but it was almost like a freight train, it was so heavy that even when other musicians would come and stand up with us they didn't even know where to begin, it was very difficult for them to hang with us because the style that we developed was so powerful and was so rhythmic that uh they didn't know how to jam with us. It was a very interesting time period, but I think I think a lot of music came from that type of grooving and jamming together

do u know what they felt?? im going by they way they all speak in interviews so kiss off

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Reply #19 posted 06/18/17 9:20am

luvgirl

purplegirl00 said:



SoulAlive said:


Vanity was his lady at the time.It's normal that he would want to shower her with alot of attention and love.Dez's complaint actually reminds me of BrownMark complaining about Wendy a few years later....



"I believe in seniority.I was in the band since '81,but Wendy comes into the band and he makes her an instant star.She gets all these lines in the movie and appears on the cover of Rolling Stone with him"



hmmm




.




[Edited 6/17/17 21:58pm]





Exactly. Not only was he working to launch her career further, but she was also his girlfriend. Due to both of those things, he probably felt it necessary to be spending more time and attention on her. hmmm Prince's creative work was not compromised; he was still on point with everything while he was having a relationship with/ dating her (juggling a few of the other women too). I often wonder how the man was able to pull off all these things at once. If Dez’s paycheck was not compromised in any way, then what was the beef about?


I’m sure Dez and the other bandmembers felt that Vanity was a waste of time, but she was well on her way before Prince and the exposure he gave her through V6 really put her out there. When she left, she went on to other projects- two solo albums, a string of movies, and shows. So for her to be discounted and the bandmembers to be annoyed that Prince was spending too much time with/ on her because she wasn't more than a pretty face, was off the mark.


He chose Vanity to be on the cover of RS with him- probably because again, she was his girlfriend and that's what he wanted. He was the boss. And look, it turned out to be the best decision as 30+ years later, it's iconic and still talked about.



I agree with you Purplegirl00. I do think helping his girlfriend to launch her career played a part as well. He did tell her he would do that for her. I also think that Prince used it to keep her around because he knew he wasn't the best boyfriend juggling all the other women, and let's face it he knew Vanity had other options...
[Edited 6/18/17 9:49am]
I just want you here, I just want you near me baby, cause I'm scared I'll cry, I love you like crazy.
~RIP~
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Reply #20 posted 06/18/17 9:24am

purplegirl00

luvgirl said:

I think It's clear that the reason Prince paid more attention to Vanity's Six was simple because he felt more attuned to the vision he had for Vanity than he did for the Time or even his own band. Vanity was his muse and lover and that alone would have inspired in him the type of effort and drive it would take to expose her to the stratosphere he felt she could go. He believed in her. He knew she had it, because she energized the vision in him. He simple went with what his heart told him. Hence the reason she became the focal point of his exposition and the reason he placed her as female lead in Purple Rain before things went astray. It's fair to say that the fact that she was his lover played a part in the drive, but being his lover and muse activated an intuition he felt she could bring to light.

nod

Morris Day and other members of the Time didn't seem to complain about the time and attention he was giving Vanity or did they?

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Reply #21 posted 06/18/17 9:27am

purplegirl00

luvgirl said:

purplegirl00 said:

Exactly. Not only was he working to launch her career further, but she was also his girlfriend. Due to both of those things, he probably felt it necessary to be spending more time and attention on her. hmmm Prince's creative work was not compromised; he was still on point with everything while he was having a relationship with/ dating her (juggling a few of the other women too). I often wonder how the man was able to pull off all these things at once. If Dez’s paycheck was not compromised in any way, then what was the beef about?

I’m sure Dez and the other bandmembers felt that Vanity was a waste of time, but she was well on her way before Prince and the exposure he gave her through V6 really put her out there. When she left, she went on to other projects- two solo albums, a string of movies, and shows. So for her to be discounted and the bandmembers to be annoyed that Prince was spending too much time with/ on her because she wasn't more than a pretty face, was off the mark.

He chose Vanity to be on the cover of RS with him- probably because again, she was his girlfriend and that's what he wanted. He was the boss. And look, it turned out to be the best decision as 30+ years later, it's iconic and still talked about.

I agree with you Purplegirl00. I do think helping his girlfriend to launch her career played a part as well. He did tell her he would do that for her. I also think that Prince used it to keep her around because he knew he wasn't the best boyfriend juggling all the other women, and let's face it he knew Vanity had other options...

Yes, Jill said it in her podcast that people were calling from all over the world for Vanity. He had reason to worry that she would leave if he could not deliver.

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Reply #22 posted 06/18/17 9:55am

luvgirl

purplegirl00 said:



luvgirl said:


I think It's clear that the reason Prince paid more attention to Vanity Six than The Time was because he felt more attuned to the vision he had for Vanity than he did for the Time or even his own band. Vanity was his muse and lover and that alone would have inspired in him the type of effort and drive it would take to expose her to the stratosphere he felt she could go. He believed in her. He knew she had it, because she energized the vision in him. He simply went with what his heart told him. Hence the reason she became the focal point of his exposition and the reason he placed her as female lead in Purple Rain before things went astray. It's fair to say that the fact that she was his lover played a part in the drive, but being his lover and muse activated an intuition he felt she could bring to light.


nod


Morris Day and other members of the Time didn't seem to complain about the time and attention he was giving Vanity or did they?



I've never heard of The Time complaining apart from the fact that they had to play behind a curtain on stage for Vanity Six performances without getting extra pay for it. Morris Day was one of the few people back then that seemed to have liked Vanity...
[Edited 6/18/17 10:27am]
I just want you here, I just want you near me baby, cause I'm scared I'll cry, I love you like crazy.
~RIP~
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Reply #23 posted 06/18/17 11:12am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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cbarnes3121 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

You don't know what those latter people felt. 'full of love' many of them did not have personal/emotional relationships with Prince the way others did. And yes Elisa Fiorillo did go on the attack toward Shelby directly and everyone, it seems, doing interviews or performing music about Prince. http://prince.org/msg/5/443226

The whole Kiss discussion has been talked about way before Prince died. BrownMark had a big hand it what became Kiss, yes he did. I don't think he meant he actually wrote the whole song. And he never talked as if he made Prince. One of his first interviews that he went further in speaking than I've ever heard, was while Prince was alive 2.15.2015:

I don't say we collaborated as much as the Revolution tried to live out his dream, we got into the mind of Prince we learned what it was he was trying to accomplish. So I think that was more the collaboration, us learning 'what is it you're looking for?'
and once we could see his direction, we would jam so much, we would sometimes jam from 10 o'clock in the morning to 10 o'clock at night. I remember sometimes eating lunch while I'm still playing. I would walk to the lunchroom with my bass because it was on a wireless rig and then I would go into the refrigerator grab food and come back and I'd still be playing with one hand while eating. That's how intense we were, and I think from that we helped Prince create not only a style and energy but it was almost like a freight train, it was so heavy that even when other musicians would come and stand up with us they didn't even know where to begin, it was very difficult for them to hang with us because the style that we developed was so powerful and was so rhythmic that uh they didn't know how to jam with us. It was a very interesting time period, but I think I think a lot of music came from that type of grooving and jamming together

do u know what they felt?? im going by they way they all speak in interviews so kiss off

hey if you cannot have a adult discussion without going personal and tell me to 'kiss off' then you might be 'kissed off'

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #24 posted 06/18/17 11:16am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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Vashtix said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

But I can also understand from Dez view point, how 'distracted' Prince could have been. Dr Fink said something similar.
And I don't think these guys are slouches as far as the music went

.

This all also goes into connection with the Time. If you look at the amount of promotion Vanity 6 got over the Time, it is clearly uneven.

The time were formidable though ; they just had everything. Vanity 6 was not even close to what the time were back then.

Yeah, both were very profitable for Prince. I mean I think Vanity 6 as entertainers were formidable too. I think that is why 1982-83 was such a high purple time too

Both were going to bring Prince high status if he handled them better. And as we see by 1984 it didn't go so well as a result.

I have a bunch of pictures from the Time 1981-1983 and Vanity 6 1982-1983 and for every photo of Morris Day or the Time there are about 5-7 of Vanity 6. Vanity 6 album cover photos/lp sleaves were more creative too. And the Time only had 2 videos Cool and the Walk

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #25 posted 06/18/17 11:17am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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purplegirl00 said:

luvgirl said:

I think It's clear that the reason Prince paid more attention to Vanity's Six was simple because he felt more attuned to the vision he had for Vanity than he did for the Time or even his own band. Vanity was his muse and lover and that alone would have inspired in him the type of effort and drive it would take to expose her to the stratosphere he felt she could go. He believed in her. He knew she had it, because she energized the vision in him. He simple went with what his heart told him. Hence the reason she became the focal point of his exposition and the reason he placed her as female lead in Purple Rain before things went astray. It's fair to say that the fact that she was his lover played a part in the drive, but being his lover and muse activated an intuition he felt she could bring to light.

nod

Morris Day and other members of the Time didn't seem to complain about the time and attention he was giving Vanity or did they?

I think they did but not directed at the women personally. Dez seems like the only one who is a little personal about it, but it also might be more directed at Prince than Denise.

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #26 posted 06/18/17 11:52am

LBrent


Vashtix said:

LBrent said:

Sooo, P wanting to spend private time with his girlfriend was a problem?

I liked V and Matt made a point about P spending time with...modestly talented gals he was wooing...but whatever...The bands, all of them were acting like he was their private property.

Ok, so P had a penchant for pretty, humbly talented gals...So?

W&L had each other, and I'm guessing the rest had significant others...

P simply was trying to have a romantic life...Sheesh

Prince did have many protoges. Vanity was not like the others though. She was beautiful, not he greatest singer ut she had something the others did not have.

Vanity was wooed from the Prince camp by big names in Hollywood. Martin Scorcese, Barry Gordy, Spielberg, etc. She had that IT factor. By the time she crossed paths with Prince she had already modeled overseas, did playboy,and made 2 movies.

She left P's camp made more movies, 3 albums

(http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0889152/?ref_=nm_pub)

None of his"other pretty , humbly talented" Protoges had her success. She was a trailblazer, wearing laced gloves and strategically covered gowns/clothes before Madonna, Britney, & JLO.

Granted Prince gave her a stage to be seen but he did thtat with many people over the years . However, she took full advantage and did not go about pimping the Prince connection for her income. Never dragged Prince or the women with him publicly, never ever blamed her time with Prince for any of her problems, never inserted herself as more important than she was to Prince and went on to make a difference in the world as preaching the Word of God.

She cannot be thrown in with the other women she was in a totally different sphere.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Vashtix said:

Prince did have many protoges. Vanity was not like the others though. She was beautiful, not he greatest singer ut she had something the others did not have.

Vanity was wooed from the Prince camp by big names in Hollywood. Martin Scorcese, Barry Gordy, Spielberg, etc. She had that IT factor. By the time she crossed paths with Prince she had already modeled overseas, did playboy,and made 2 movies.

She left P's camp made more movies, 3 albums

(http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0889152/?ref_=nm_pub)

None of his"other pretty , humbly talented" Protoges had her success. She was a trailblazer, wearing laced gloves and strategically covered gowns/clothes before Madonna, Britney, & JLO.

Granted Prince gave her a stage to be seen but he did thtat with many people over the years . However, she took full advantage and did not go about pimping the Prince connection for her income. Never dragged Prince or the women with him publicly, never ever blamed her time with Prince for any of her problems, never inserted herself as more important than she was to Prince and went on to make a difference in the world as preaching the Word of God.

She cannot be thrown in with the other women she was in a totally different sphere.

I agree,

Prince should have formed a backing band for Vanity 6 and let them have at it

Dez has talent for sure but what he lacks Vanity owns and that is Charisma

Sheila E is another huge talent, but she never had the charisma Vanity had from 1984-1986

it took her a while to develop what Vanity had naturally.

That is why when U C her first walk through that door in the Nasty Girls video it is all over.
That is why that cover of the Rolling Stones Magazine is till one of the most popular

Ok...I liked V and bear her no ill will...and I respect her og as a purple muse, but I'm bowing out at this point cuz y'all are starting to talk about talent and "It factor" and I just don't see that and I certainly don't wanna disparage her.

Enjoy wink

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Reply #27 posted 06/18/17 12:25pm

luvgirl

LBrent said:



Vashtix said:




LBrent said:


Sooo, P wanting to spend private time with his girlfriend was a problem?



I liked V and Matt made a point about P spending time with...modestly talented gals he was wooing...but whatever...The bands, all of them were acting like he was their private property.



Ok, so P had a penchant for pretty, humbly talented gals...So?



W&L had each other, and I'm guessing the rest had significant others...



P simply was trying to have a romantic life...Sheesh




Prince did have many protoges. Vanity was not like the others though. She was beautiful, not he greatest singer ut she had something the others did not have.


Vanity was wooed from the Prince camp by big names in Hollywood. Martin Scorcese, Barry Gordy, Spielberg, etc. She had that IT factor. By the time she crossed paths with Prince she had already modeled overseas, did playboy,and made 2 movies.


She left P's camp made more movies, 3 albums


(http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0889152/?ref_=nm_pub)



None of his"other pretty , humbly talented" Protoges had her success. She was a trailblazer, wearing laced gloves and strategically covered gowns/clothes before Madonna, Britney, & JLO.



Granted Prince gave her a stage to be seen but he did thtat with many people over the years . However, she took full advantage and did not go about pimping the Prince connection for her income. Never dragged Prince or the women with him publicly, never ever blamed her time with Prince for any of her problems, never inserted herself as more important than she was to Prince and went on to make a difference in the world as preaching the Word of God.



She cannot be thrown in with the other women she was in a totally different sphere.







OldFriends4Sale said:




Vashtix said:




Prince did have many protoges. Vanity was not like the others though. She was beautiful, not he greatest singer ut she had something the others did not have.


Vanity was wooed from the Prince camp by big names in Hollywood. Martin Scorcese, Barry Gordy, Spielberg, etc. She had that IT factor. By the time she crossed paths with Prince she had already modeled overseas, did playboy,and made 2 movies.


She left P's camp made more movies, 3 albums


(http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0889152/?ref_=nm_pub)



None of his"other pretty , humbly talented" Protoges had her success. She was a trailblazer, wearing laced gloves and strategically covered gowns/clothes before Madonna, Britney, & JLO.



Granted Prince gave her a stage to be seen but he did thtat with many people over the years . However, she took full advantage and did not go about pimping the Prince connection for her income. Never dragged Prince or the women with him publicly, never ever blamed her time with Prince for any of her problems, never inserted herself as more important than she was to Prince and went on to make a difference in the world as preaching the Word of God.



She cannot be thrown in with the other women she was in a totally different sphere.






I agree,


Prince should have formed a backing band for Vanity 6 and let them have at it


Dez has talent for sure but what he lacks Vanity owns and that is Charisma


Sheila E is another huge talent, but she never had the charisma Vanity had from 1984-1986


it took her a while to develop what Vanity had naturally.


That is why when U C her first walk through that door in the Nasty Girls video it is all over.
That is why that cover of the Rolling Stones Magazine is till one of the most popular




Ok...I liked V and bear her no ill will...and I respect her og as a purple muse, but I'm bowing out at this point cuz y'all are starting to talk about talent and "It factor" and I just don't see that and I certainly don't wanna disparage her.



Enjoy wink



lol Lol, you don't have to bow out LBrent. A difference of opinions are welcome. yes You don't think Vanity had talent or the IT factor? If it's one thing I thought we could all agree on about Vanity was that IT factor! razz Do you feel like Prince only extended his energy towards her for the simple fact that she was his lover?
[Edited 6/18/17 12:26pm]
I just want you here, I just want you near me baby, cause I'm scared I'll cry, I love you like crazy.
~RIP~
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Reply #28 posted 06/18/17 12:45pm

sonshine

avatar

I happen to agree with Dez. I can see where he is coming from. In the end it seems Vanity was a waste of time, an unnecessary distraction, and nuisance. No one remembers Vanity unless you coax their memory. She's an afterthought. Not trying to be mean, just sayin.
But that's how it always goes. Some woman comes along and messes everything up. He is right they deserved to be in the RS article and pics. Not Vanity. I never understood the big fuss about her. So many women came and went. She wasn't so special. The guys were battling it out in the trenches with P those esrly years. They were a tight band. You don't mess with that. They helped launch P into super stardom. I dont feel Dez is out of line.
Besides plenty of others in P's camp felt the same way about her. They were there. They would know better than any of us here would if and how much of a detriment she was. I will go with their accounts of the situation. And i don't think P was so starved for female attention (love/sex) that he needed to isolate himself with his lady away from the rest of the world.
That isolation thing was a theme throughout his life tho and probably not for the better.
Have you had your plus sign (+) today?
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Reply #29 posted 06/18/17 12:52pm

LBrent

LBrent said:

Ok...I liked V and bear her no ill will...and I respect her og as a purple muse, but I'm bowing out at this point cuz y'all are starting to talk about talent and "It factor" and I just don't see that and I certainly don't wanna disparage her.

Enjoy wink

luvgirl said:
lol Lol, you don't have to bow out LBrent. A difference of opinions are welcome. yes You don't think Vanity had talent or the IT factor? If it's one thing I thought we could all agree on about Vanity was that IT factor! razz Do you feel like Prince only extended his energy towards her for the simple fact that she was his lover? [Edited 6/18/17 12:26pm]

I think V holds an undeniable seat on the purple dias as a pretty purple muse with a stubborn yet sweet spirit...and a beautiful face, shape and legs...

I think for the time that they were happy, I was happy for them...and when they made each other sad I was sad for them...and now they've hopefully found peace...

But I did see The Last Dragon and Action Jackson and have fond memories of those 2 V movies...and I like her in gorilla fur and black lace.

That's all I got...Sorry..

confused

[Edited 6/18/17 12:56pm]

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Forums > Associated artists & people > The Way Dez Dickerson Tells It, He Felt Vanity Stole Prince Away From Him And The Band!