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Reply #90 posted 03/04/18 9:35am

ChocolateBox31
21

Vashtix said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Could have been the part of"Sug". Tina Turner turned it down.

I love the fact Denise never run around bragging about her past and who she knew and what she knew.

.

For me it is not matter what she was offered in the movie- the fact she was at least offered. Interesting peeps always try to belittle her as a no talent. She had a legitimate career after V6.She was not hanging onto Prince to make her money or further her career.

[Edited 3/4/18 7:38am]

She sure wasn't! She got a co-lead role in the movie 'Last Dragon' right after she left Prince. She was destined to be a star.

This is my ALL TIME favorite performance of hers. Although she was lip synching. The way she commanded the stage BY HERSELF. Plus took COMPLETE control of the audience. She had them in the palm of her hands.

Btw Jesse johnson who produced and wrote this for her really brought her vocals out on this. I'm glad I was able to tell him that.

So Prince, whom fought 4 his first record deal & got it, fought 4 a movie deal & got it, fought 4 freedom from his WB contract & got it, fought 4 his masters & got them.Gets a curable illness & says 2 himself ok, I'm done. "Life is a Box Of Chocolates"
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Reply #91 posted 03/05/18 12:12am

Shard

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Vashtix said:

I love the fact Denise never run around bragging about her past and who she knew and what she knew.

.

For me it is not matter what she was offered in the movie- the fact she was at least offered. Interesting peeps always try to belittle her as a no talent. She had a legitimate career after V6.She was not hanging onto Prince to make her money or further her career.

[Edited 3/4/18 7:38am]

She sure wasn't! She got a co-lead role in the movie 'Last Dragon' right after she left Prince. She was destined to be a star.

This is my ALL TIME favorite performance of hers. Although she was lip synching. The way she commanded the stage BY HERSELF. Plus took COMPLETE control of the audience. She had them in the palm of her hands.

Btw Jesse johnson who produced and wrote this for her really brought her vocals out on this. I'm glad I was able to tell him that.

oh wow you talked to him about this song? What did he say about it and your comment?

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Reply #92 posted 03/07/18 8:44am

Vashtix

Toban said:

I have many of her notes and sermons

this is a rough draft of something Denise wrote 3 years ago tomorrow.

.

i have heard this song ”SAY SOMETHING I’M GIVING UP ON YOU” the truth is, the words truly saddened me upon hearing and here is why...and so i changed them..”Say something "I WON’T" GIVE UP ON YOU”...it is a terrible thing to give up on anyone that is sick, lonesome or depressed or even dying. We certainly wouldn’t wish that on ourselves right! This is why we love our Jesus, This is why we pray ALOUD...instead of look over friends and family at the peak of their death and stand by with vain regrets, tears and hands shaking with no hope in ur own breath...'WE NEED JESUS BEFORE WE DIE”..for their is no death bed repentance written and u are greatly mistaken concerning the thief on the cross were forgiven by Jesus HE WAS GOD IN THE FLESH, THEY WERE FORGIVEN RIGHT THERE however after that Jesus thru the Holyghost gave us commandments to obey after He lrft this earth lifted up into the heavens in Acts 1 Jesus gave those commandments to the Apostles and the FIRST one was that we “REPENT AND BE BAPTISED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF OUR SINS AND WE SHALL RECIEVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLYGHOST - EVIDENCE OF THIS IS WE WILL SPEAK WITH TONGUES AND BE A WITNESS OF CHRIST IN LOUR LIFE .. don’t u want Heaven rather than hell..i am talking to those that have a seed of faith...where are you going, either OR... u make that decision, if u are really looking for Christ then run after Him with all your Heart, ask Him for Pastors that truly love Him for real..Acknowledge Him in everything you do and He will direct ur path..really He that seeks Him will find Him amen!
Come fall in love with Jesus so He can save you, and u will have the body of Christ on your side to pray for you when times get rough. Moments of silence as the world calls it doesn’t work when we live in PRACTISING sin...God answers prayers to when we repent which means to turn from this wicked world and come back to Him. Let Jesus comfort you in ALL times of trouble..Jesus really does answer our prayers, it has got to be the most powerful miracle of all that when you talk to Him.... He answers back...We will fly one day, and reach the stars...i am so happy.. i feel like i am flying right now..i love you all and i will pray for you..SAY SOMETHING I WON’T GIVE UP ON YOU....LUVD

WOW!! Inspirational and touching. Denise had a heart that was rare.

.

I appreciate that she can be celebrated for the person she was singularly and not just due to significant others she allowed in her life. She seems to have been a person of great character. You posted before that she was an event allby herself and I believe it.

.

To be able to be that person to not give up on others and remember we none of us are perfect is so special. I understand why she was able touch so many lives and why she is unforgettable.

queen heart angel

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Reply #93 posted 03/07/18 9:20am

kitbradley

avatar

ChocolateBox3121 said:

kitbradley said:

Never knew she was offerred a part in "The Color Purple". Probably the part of Squeak, which ended up being played by Rae Dong Chong. Amazing the number of singers who were offerred a part in the film and most turned it down.

Could have been the part of"Sug". Tina Turner turned it down.

While Denise was a singer, somehow I doubt if she could have handled siniging "God Is Trying To Tell You Something" and "The Dirty Dozens". They were too big for her. that's why I'm thinking she was offerred the Squeak role being she and Rae Dong had similar looks. Originally, they were looking for someone who could handle the singing for the part of Shug Avery. Tina, Chaka and Patti were all offerred and all turned it down. Phyllis Hyman was eventually hired and fired shortly after they started filming for being too difficult to work with. They decided to go with an seasoned actress who could lip-sync after that and hired Tata Vega for the vocal work. biggrin


[Edited 3/7/18 9:23am]

"It's not nice to fuck with K.B.! All you haters will see!" - Kitbradley
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Reply #94 posted 03/07/18 9:43am

ChocolateBox31
21

kitbradley said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Could have been the part of"Sug". Tina Turner turned it down.

While Denise was a singer, somehow I doubt if she could have handled siniging "God Is Trying To Tell You Something" and "The Dirty Dozens". They were too big for her. that's why I'm thinking she was offerred the Squeak role being she and Rae Dong had similar looks. Originally, they were looking for someone who could handle the singing for the part of Shug Avery. Tina, Chaka and Patti were all offerred and all turned it down. Phyllis Hyman was eventually hired and fired shortly after they started filming for being too difficult to work with. They decided to go with an seasoned actress who could lip-sync after that and hired Tata Vega for the vocal work. biggrin


[Edited 3/7/18 9:23am]

biggrin

Also Rae Dong Chong was the IT girl during that time. NO black actress stood a chance in auditions against her.

Btw U have good taste in muziq..... wink

So Prince, whom fought 4 his first record deal & got it, fought 4 a movie deal & got it, fought 4 freedom from his WB contract & got it, fought 4 his masters & got them.Gets a curable illness & says 2 himself ok, I'm done. "Life is a Box Of Chocolates"
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Reply #95 posted 03/07/18 10:03am

Vashtix

Vashtix said:

Toban said:

I have many of her notes and sermons

this is a rough draft of something Denise wrote 3 years ago tomorrow.

.

i have heard this song ”SAY SOMETHING I’M GIVING UP ON YOU” the truth is, the words truly saddened me upon hearing and here is why...and so i changed them..”Say something "I WON’T" GIVE UP ON YOU”...it is a terrible thing to give up on anyone that is sick, lonesome or depressed or even dying. We certainly wouldn’t wish that on ourselves right! This is why we love our Jesus, This is why we pray ALOUD...instead of look over friends and family at the peak of their death and stand by with vain regrets, tears and hands shaking with no hope in ur own breath...'WE NEED JESUS BEFORE WE DIE”..for their is no death bed repentance written and u are greatly mistaken concerning the thief on the cross were forgiven by Jesus HE WAS GOD IN THE FLESH, THEY WERE FORGIVEN RIGHT THERE however after that Jesus thru the Holyghost gave us commandments to obey after He lrft this earth lifted up into the heavens in Acts 1 Jesus gave those commandments to the Apostles and the FIRST one was that we “REPENT AND BE BAPTISED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF OUR SINS AND WE SHALL RECIEVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLYGHOST - EVIDENCE OF THIS IS WE WILL SPEAK WITH TONGUES AND BE A WITNESS OF CHRIST IN LOUR LIFE .. don’t u want Heaven rather than hell..i am talking to those that have a seed of faith...where are you going, either OR... u make that decision, if u are really looking for Christ then run after Him with all your Heart, ask Him for Pastors that truly love Him for real..Acknowledge Him in everything you do and He will direct ur path..really He that seeks Him will find Him amen!
Come fall in love with Jesus so He can save you, and u will have the body of Christ on your side to pray for you when times get rough. Moments of silence as the world calls it doesn’t work when we live in PRACTISING sin...God answers prayers to when we repent which means to turn from this wicked world and come back to Him. Let Jesus comfort you in ALL times of trouble..Jesus really does answer our prayers, it has got to be the most powerful miracle of all that when you talk to Him.... He answers back...We will fly one day, and reach the stars...i am so happy.. i feel like i am flying right now..i love you all and i will pray for you..SAY SOMETHING I WON’T GIVE UP ON YOU....LUVD

WOW!! Inspirational and touching. Denise had a heart that was rare.

.

I appreciate that she can be celebrated for the person she was singularly and not just due to significant others she allowed in her life. She seems to have been a person of great character. You posted before that she was an event allby herself and I believe it.

.

To be able to be that person to not give up on others and remember we none of us are perfect is so special. I understand why she was able touch so many lives and why she is unforgettable.

queen heart angel

26804997_1940613095965963_3106916652312511796_n.jpg?oh=48de6f34037c0f2de9405de8440caefc&oe=5B391445

No matter about the actress Denise.

.

What matters is that Denise as a person effected many lives and as my previous posts stated in response to Toban's posting of the writing from Denise- she did not just talk about she showed up and did things for others- she had a heart .

.

She did not give up on herself or others and for that I hope that will be one of things she will forever be remembered.

.

queen queen queen

[Edited 3/7/18 10:04am]

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Reply #96 posted 03/10/18 7:32pm

Goddess4Real

avatar

Vashtix said:

Vashtix said:

WOW!! Inspirational and touching. Denise had a heart that was rare.

.

I appreciate that she can be celebrated for the person she was singularly and not just due to significant others she allowed in her life. She seems to have been a person of great character. You posted before that she was an event allby herself and I believe it.

.

To be able to be that person to not give up on others and remember we none of us are perfect is so special. I understand why she was able touch so many lives and why she is unforgettable.

queen heart angel

26804997_1940613095965963_3106916652312511796_n.jpg?oh=48de6f34037c0f2de9405de8440caefc&oe=5B391445

No matter about the actress Denise.

.

What matters is that Denise as a person effected many lives and as my previous posts stated in response to Toban's posting of the writing from Denise- she did not just talk about she showed up and did things for others- she had a heart .

.

She did not give up on herself or others and for that I hope that will be one of things she will forever be remembered.

.

queen queen queen

[Edited 3/7/18 10:04am]

yeahthat touched

Keep Calm & Listen To Prince
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Reply #97 posted 03/13/18 10:51am

purplegirl00

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Vashtix said:

I love the fact Denise never run around bragging about her past and who she knew and what she knew.

.

For me it is not matter what she was offered in the movie- the fact she was at least offered. Interesting peeps always try to belittle her as a no talent. She had a legitimate career after V6.She was not hanging onto Prince to make her money or further her career.

[Edited 3/4/18 7:38am]

She sure wasn't! She got a co-lead role in the movie 'Last Dragon' right after she left Prince. She was destined to be a star.

This is my ALL TIME favorite performance of hers. Although she was lip synching. The way she commanded the stage BY HERSELF. Plus took COMPLETE control of the audience. She had them in the palm of her hands.

Btw Jesse johnson who produced and wrote this for her really brought her vocals out on this. I'm glad I was able to tell him that.

nod She had a very commanding presence. A true BOSS on stage both in Vanity 6 and when she went on her own. Busting through like it was nobody's business and then holding it down. She knew she wasn't the best singer but so what? She threw all she had up there- her beauty, charm, etc. and captivated the audience.

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Reply #98 posted 03/23/18 4:03pm

Toban

.

purplegirl00 said:

Toban said:

I imagine it would be very easy to fall for Denise, however that was not what I meant.

.

Telling Denise that sometimes it was difficult to be around her because I had been in love with her sister and that I still loved her sister, had mostly to do with loss.

We had first separated in 1999 and it was my anger and frustration over where I believed DeBorah and I should have been with our sons as a family that sometimes made it difficult to be around Denise. It was not her fault and it was not fair to her, but Denise almost always reminded me of DeBorah, and sometimes it was a painful reminder.

I was the only family in the area and made it a point to be there when she needed me, however there are many things that I regret not making the time to do with her due to past memories.

.

I was there, I witnessed and I knew depth of their connection. I knew what Denise had ask of her and what DeBorah had been willing to do for her regarding her health, her marriage and agreeing to carry a child. I did not like hearing Denise speak badly of her sister where I was concerned, which is what actually initiated my finally having to say something.

.

How similar they were, how and why they could communicated without speaking even over the phone revealed more to me about their childhood then they could have ever explained; and technically neither one ever did.

Having them both in the same room was like having either one in Stereo. Our sons were always freaked out by how alike they were.

.

.

Denise’s musing influence on my poetry, the bulk of which was written from 2008 to 2011, that was due to my beginning to see a lot of Denise from 2001 through 2006, and the fact that the person (woman of interest) whom had encouraged me to begin writing again, who mused me most and collaborated with me, and whom had initially invited me to the poetry group we were part of, that person chose not to reveal themselves to me for those 3 years; and never has over the past 10 years.

.

Talk about your Strange Relations, eh?

During those 3 years I can’t honestly say that Denise was the catalyst that inspired any particular write. It’s that as a romantic poet, visually, her manner, my memory and image of her fit well with most of what I was writing at the time. The poem “I Wrote Her” is just one example of my utilizing Denise’s character, and even channeling Prince when I wrote “Melancholy.”

.

In answering each question, in the telling of each story it is with difficulty that I force myself to compartmentalize various aspects of my relationships to Denise in order to be able to speak candidly or write objectively about her, instead of just desperately wanting everyone to see what I saw, and to know and remember her as I did by attempting to fill up pages with only what I found to be so amazing about her.

It is a fine line that is not so well define to see her through my eyes.

In my eyes as a poet, in my eyes a friend, in my eyes as In-Law relations makes everything said relative, if not Freudian. Critiques of which I do understand.

.

Honestly I don’t feel the need to take such liberties in the telling of her incredible journey and life story. It would be exhausting trying to hide, deny, explain, justify and analytically attempt to balance my personal experiences and memory of her against the decades of sensationalized marketing, the publicity, escapades and salacious history of her celebrity persona as Vanity, that was created, advertised and that has been and will be forever promoted by the legend of Prince.

.

DeBorah and I were talking about talking yesterday. After reminiscing a bit and even discussing some of the subjects like the Org, Mark’s book, the cufflinks and jewelry she continue to make for him, Audra, Prince’s calls to check on Denise, the night Denise was calling about his son etc.… we decided we should hang out like we use to back in the day, and discuss what we want to do with Denise’s things, including her art, signed poetry and her memoirs, which DeBorah has not yet read. So for now I’ll leave it until then and to her to decide.

Thank you for your reply Toban. Please accept my apology as I assumed different than what you explained up above in regards to the reason for keeping your distance from Denise and finally having to tell her as to why. I drew a premature conclusion and I appreciate your explanation which makes sense. I could see why being around Denise with your sons would've been, at times, a painful reminder of DeBorah as you explained how similar she and Denise were.

.

As you said in an earlier post, Denise mused many. I can see her fitting into the muse of a romantic poem or song, even if she didn't originally muse the writer. Not many can do that. I can see it being difficult expressing thoughts in artform with the unique position you were in with her, without raising eyebrows or receiving judgment.

.

Denise led a fascinating life as Vanity, Denise, and the Evangelist. I get that you might not feel qualified to tell her story, share her memoirs. That's understandable. However, I do hope that DeBorah would seriously consider it as many of us want to know. More importantly it would be a loving tribute to continue her legacy. Denise left items in yours (and her) care for a reason.

.

You said that she "continued making jewelry and cufflinks for him"- was this back in the 80's only or in recent years too? It's good to hear that Prince was checking on Denise and she on him in the 90's, especially since both were going through some difficult life situations and transitions during those years.

I don’t think there’s any need to apologize, you might not be entirely wrong, no day was ever the same and the individual memories of DeBorah that Denise invoked did not truly cause me pain. I just didn’t care to linger in them. It’s similar to the reason why I sometimes don’t respond or don’t quickly respond on here sometime. An ocean like multitude of prosaic little moments locked away in memory can be so overwhelming and so easily released when try to view one piece.

But since you bring it up, what conclusions did you happen draw and or what do you think most people would assume or conclude about our multifaceted relationship?

  1. She was Vanity and I was just a man?
  2. I’m a poet and she was beautiful?
  3. If you can’t be with the one you love, love the one you’re with?
  4. She was also just a girl, standing in front of a boy, asking him to love her?

.

.

Regarding her musing influence…

As a romantic poet I don’t ordinarily write about the physical beauty of a woman, but rather preferred to prose those qualities and manner of a woman in my awkward attempt to rationalize, describe and define the feminine mystique. Yeah, good luck with that, right? Hoping at the very least to poetically convey the answer to the mystery of She that catches and holds my attention, and to explain the Reasons of the Why that has inspired me to go reaching for my pad and pen.

.

Denise was like a stranger that I knew.

Prior to 2001 I didn’t see much of Denise accept for some holidays, when she got married and her frequent visit to see Rick James (no they were not together prior to Prince). However, because they were so much alike, because of listening to DeBorah’s stories and hearing half of their conversations for those many years before Denise and I developed our own relationship, and probably also because Denise assumed that I knew everything that DeBorah knew, Denise and I quickly became close as old friends; particularly in 2006, when she wasn’t or couldn’t drive and I was working 10 miles away from her apartment for that year.

We spent a lot of time hanging out before, during and after shopping for materials for her books, moving her storages, hanging art, working on her cars and repairing whatever might have broken since my last visit. Rarely did we just watch a movie or TV, we talk more than anything else… well, she mostly talked while preparing dinner as I worked something. She was quick to notice when I didn’t wish to speak about something, acknowledging it by shout over the stove’s exhaust fan “Oh YOU DON’T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT, eh? OK, I GET IT.” Which actually meant once she discovered that pulling a personal bit of information out of me was going to be difficult she was just going to changing her tactics.

“Tell me, tell me” she’d say commenting on how I “…seemed to enjoy being lost… in thought,” which provoked a smirk. “Sometimes you remind me of him…” I didn’t need to ask who, I turned and looked at her looking at me, thinking that she was just fishing, and thinking it because DeBorah use to say the same thing to me about Tony, and then later on Prince.

.

Both she and DeBorah seemed to be always search for some way to get a deep belly laugh out of me. They flirted and seduced (information) the same, with a look, a smile and a knowing phrase where a kiss might have left me guessing true intent. They danced around the house wearing sweats doing the most mundane things, just enjoying being silly and having only me as an audience.

I did my thing while observing every glance within every moment and segue of their performance as they pretended to steal my attention when they knew they already had it.

.

.

Now, I wrote this in late 08 or early 09 an attempt to explain how I write. I wasn’t seeing or dating anyone and I had no one in particular in mind.

.

I WROTE HER, (The Method)

.

THE METHOD

.

I process a feeling.

Letting it overwhelm the rational.

I can sense a write is coming;

Engaging pad, pen

and the mental mechanism.

.

She…

The Object of my mood swing?

But why HER within this crowd?

Knowing that which…

instigates,

captivates,

and motivates the method

is more than providence!

So to question inspiration

is not allowed!

____________

I WROTE HER

.

Not knowing where she’d been.

Not knowing what she’d done.

With care I penciled in,

to make the ragged fragments fit with what I did;

though knowing

only

Imagined.

.

As when…

I knew she’d call me.

When…

She held her breath;

She held still;

I held it… as I penned

my number to the pad in the palm of her hand.

.

We’d talk for hours

as if

she were a long lost friend.

.

I anxiously listened to her stories,

her childhood dreams,

the places she’d been,

…the next steps in her future life plan.

.

And

I knew she’d kiss me.

I knew how… I knew when.

.

More then that,

“Goodnight Kiss on a Doorstep”

Or

“An Endearing Peck, Of a Friend.”

.

It was When…

She decided, she wanted to know more of me

Strip off defense that I had kept continually raising.

Noticing how would shift conversations away from me.

.

When finally… She said… “Tell me!”

.

“Tell me, Tell me” became part of her playful phrasings.

“Tell me, Tell me” I begin to smile as she keeps saying.

.

Then Slowly,

Carefully,

Thoughtfully

I began releasing, liberating history stored deep… in memory.

Parts of me buried, suppressed, unseen since experiencing.

Along with the Boyhood Dreams put away, traded, for life’s “practical” realities.

Betraying all the beauty of foolish abstract imaginings.

.

Lost in a permanent game of “Hide and Seek!”

She found this childlike quality that was once me…

By Just Listening.

.

In this… My Theater… she listened.

Paid attention to my personal biography.

Paid her ticket to a private viewing and she held it tightly.

She held my hand hearing all the drama

She held her side through all the comedy.

.

When Suddenly… She kissed me.

Full lipped, tongue slipped, slight flick… pulling me closely.

Then whispering,

“Tell me, Tell me”

“Tell me a bedtime story”

_________

.

EPILOGUE

.

I drew her near me, as the write infers.

Looking lovingly into enamored eyes.

An illustration…

captioned lines poetically describes.

.

This drawing captures

the underlying essence

of the verse.

.

I did not know her… It’s just how…

I wrote her.

.......

As a poet this what I meant in how she'd somehow find her way into my writes.

.

I will answer the rest another time. I haven't been home more than total of 10 days since Christmas and have not had much time to write. If they lock the page just message me.

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Reply #99 posted 03/23/18 4:30pm

PennyPurple

avatar

Thanks Toban, I always enjoy your writings. Also thank you for clearing up the Rick James thing.

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Reply #100 posted 03/24/18 4:47am

Vashtix

Toban said:

.

purplegirl00 said:

Thank you for your reply Toban. Please accept my apology as I assumed different than what you explained up above in regards to the reason for keeping your distance from Denise and finally having to tell her as to why. I drew a premature conclusion and I appreciate your explanation which makes sense. I could see why being around Denise with your sons would've been, at times, a painful reminder of DeBorah as you explained how similar she and Denise were.

.

As you said in an earlier post, Denise mused many. I can see her fitting into the muse of a romantic poem or song, even if she didn't originally muse the writer. Not many can do that. I can see it being difficult expressing thoughts in artform with the unique position you were in with her, without raising eyebrows or receiving judgment.

.

Denise led a fascinating life as Vanity, Denise, and the Evangelist. I get that you might not feel qualified to tell her story, share her memoirs. That's understandable. However, I do hope that DeBorah would seriously consider it as many of us want to know. More importantly it would be a loving tribute to continue her legacy. Denise left items in yours (and her) care for a reason.

.

You said that she "continued making jewelry and cufflinks for him"- was this back in the 80's only or in recent years too? It's good to hear that Prince was checking on Denise and she on him in the 90's, especially since both were going through some difficult life situations and transitions during those years.

I don’t think there’s any need to apologize, you might not be entirely wrong, no day was ever the same and the individual memories of DeBorah that Denise invoked did not truly cause me pain. I just didn’t care to linger in them. It’s similar to the reason why I sometimes don’t respond or don’t quickly respond on here sometime. An ocean like multitude of prosaic little moments locked away in memory can be so overwhelming and so easily released when try to view one piece.

But since you bring it up, what conclusions did you happen draw and or what do you think most people would assume or conclude about our multifaceted relationship?

  1. She was Vanity and I was just a man?
  2. I’m a poet and she was beautiful?
  3. If you can’t be with the one you love, love the one you’re with?
  4. She was also just a girl, standing in front of a boy, asking him to love her?

.

.

Regarding her musing influence…

As a romantic poet I don’t ordinarily write about the physical beauty of a woman, but rather preferred to prose those qualities and manner of a woman in my awkward attempt to rationalize, describe and define the feminine mystique. Yeah, good luck with that, right? Hoping at the very least to poetically convey the answer to the mystery of She that catches and holds my attention, and to explain the Reasons of the Why that has inspired me to go reaching for my pad and pen.

.

Denise was like a stranger that I knew.

Prior to 2001 I didn’t see much of Denise accept for some holidays, when she got married and her frequent visit to see Rick James (no they were not together prior to Prince). However, because they were so much alike, because of listening to DeBorah’s stories and hearing half of their conversations for those many years before Denise and I developed our own relationship, and probably also because Denise assumed that I knew everything that DeBorah knew, Denise and I quickly became close as old friends; particularly in 2006, when she wasn’t or couldn’t drive and I was working 10 miles away from her apartment for that year.

We spent a lot of time hanging out before, during and after shopping for materials for her books, moving her storages, hanging art, working on her cars and repairing whatever might have broken since my last visit. Rarely did we just watch a movie or TV, we talk more than anything else… well, she mostly talked while preparing dinner as I worked something. She was quick to notice when I didn’t wish to speak about something, acknowledging it by shout over the stove’s exhaust fan “Oh YOU DON’T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT, eh? OK, I GET IT.” Which actually meant once she discovered that pulling a personal bit of information out of me was going to be difficult she was just going to changing her tactics.

“Tell me, tell me” she’d say commenting on how I “…seemed to enjoy being lost… in thought,” which provoked a smirk. “Sometimes you remind me of him…” I didn’t need to ask who, I turned and looked at her looking at me, thinking that she was just fishing, and thinking it because DeBorah use to say the same thing to me about Tony, and then later on Prince.

.

Both she and DeBorah seemed to be always search for some way to get a deep belly laugh out of me. They flirted and seduced (information) the same, with a look, a smile and a knowing phrase where a kiss might have left me guessing true intent. They danced around the house wearing sweats doing the most mundane things, just enjoying being silly and having only me as an audience.

I did my thing while observing every glance within every moment and segue of their performance as they pretended to steal my attention when they knew they already had it.

.

.

Now, I wrote this in late 08 or early 09 an attempt to explain how I write. I wasn’t seeing or dating anyone and I had no one in particular in mind.

.

I WROTE HER, (The Method)

.

THE METHOD

.

I process a feeling.

Letting it overwhelm the rational.

I can sense a write is coming;

Engaging pad, pen

and the mental mechanism.

.

She…

The Object of my mood swing?

But why HER within this crowd?

Knowing that which…

instigates,

captivates,

and motivates the method

is more than providence!

So to question inspiration

is not allowed!

____________

I WROTE HER

.

Not knowing where she’d been.

Not knowing what she’d done.

With care I penciled in,

to make the ragged fragments fit with what I did;

though knowing

only

Imagined.

.

As when…

I knew she’d call me.

When…

She held her breath;

She held still;

I held it… as I penned

my number to the pad in the palm of her hand.

.

We’d talk for hours

as if

she were a long lost friend.

.

I anxiously listened to her stories,

her childhood dreams,

the places she’d been,

…the next steps in her future life plan.

.

And

I knew she’d kiss me.

I knew how… I knew when.

.

More then that,

“Goodnight Kiss on a Doorstep”

Or

“An Endearing Peck, Of a Friend.”

.

It was When…

She decided, she wanted to know more of me

Strip off defense that I had kept continually raising.

Noticing how would shift conversations away from me.

.

When finally… She said… “Tell me!”

.

“Tell me, Tell me” became part of her playful phrasings.

“Tell me, Tell me” I begin to smile as she keeps saying.

.

Then Slowly,

Carefully,

Thoughtfully

I began releasing, liberating history stored deep… in memory.

Parts of me buried, suppressed, unseen since experiencing.

Along with the Boyhood Dreams put away, traded, for life’s “practical” realities.

Betraying all the beauty of foolish abstract imaginings.

.

Lost in a permanent game of “Hide and Seek!”

She found this childlike quality that was once me…

By Just Listening.

.

In this… My Theater… she listened.

Paid attention to my personal biography.

Paid her ticket to a private viewing and she held it tightly.

She held my hand hearing all the drama

She held her side through all the comedy.

.

When Suddenly… She kissed me.

Full lipped, tongue slipped, slight flick… pulling me closely.

Then whispering,

“Tell me, Tell me”

“Tell me a bedtime story”

_________

.

EPILOGUE

.

I drew her near me, as the write infers.

Looking lovingly into enamored eyes.

An illustration…

captioned lines poetically describes.

.

This drawing captures

the underlying essence

of the verse.

.

I did not know her… It’s just how…

I wrote her.

.......

As a poet this what I meant in how she'd somehow find her way into my writes.

.

I will answer the rest another time. I haven't been home more than total of 10 days since Christmas and have not had much time to write. If they lock the page just message me.

wave

Great to see you Toban! These poems drew me and they linger. I read the post yesterday but could not respond. I had to sit with the poems and take them in. The line I did not know her . . . it's just how . . .I wrote her. WOW and you had no one in mind; those words say so much.

.

You shared the poems in your post had no one in mind . Did Denise know you mused her? She was a poet too- did she ever share who/what she mused ?

.

I appreciate you making it clear she did not date Rick James prior to Prince. That is a rumor that has legs that has walked for decades. There is so much we have as truth that I feel are just rumors walking through the years and I hope the truths come out - as the Rick James dating Denise. I do not want to assume anything but was she seeing Rick James as just friends? was she trying to help him with his own addictions?

.

Why could she not drive in 2006? It sounds like 2006 was a special year for her to adjust her lifestyle to have to find ways to get where she needed to go pre-Uber days. Your decription of Denise and Deborah make them sound like twins. Did they stay close all their lives?

.

Moments in our memory seep out at the most unexpected times too. Much appreciation to you for sharing some of yours.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #101 posted 03/24/18 6:53pm

anangellooksdo
wn

Vashtix said:



Toban said:


I have many of her notes and sermons


this is a rough draft of something Denise wrote 3 years ago tomorrow.


.






i have heard this song ”SAY SOMETHING I’M GIVING UP ON YOU” the truth is, the words truly saddened me upon hearing and here is why...and so i changed them..”Say something "I WON’T" GIVE UP ON YOU”...it is a terrible thing to give up on anyone that is sick, lonesome or depressed or even dying. We certainly wouldn’t wish that on ourselves right! This is why we love our Jesus, This is why we pray ALOUD...instead of look over friends and family at the peak of their death and stand by with vain regrets, tears and hands shaking with no hope in ur own breath...'WE NEED JESUS BEFORE WE DIE”..for their is no death bed repentance written and u are greatly mistaken concerning the thief on the cross were forgiven by Jesus HE WAS GOD IN THE FLESH, THEY WERE FORGIVEN RIGHT THERE however after that Jesus thru the Holyghost gave us commandments to obey after He lrft this earth lifted up into the heavens in Acts 1 Jesus gave those commandments to the Apostles and the FIRST one was that we “REPENT AND BE BAPTISED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF OUR SINS AND WE SHALL RECIEVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLYGHOST - EVIDENCE OF THIS IS WE WILL SPEAK WITH TONGUES AND BE A WITNESS OF CHRIST IN LOUR LIFE .. don’t u want Heaven rather than hell..i am talking to those that have a seed of faith...where are you going, either OR... u make that decision, if u are really looking for Christ then run after Him with all your Heart, ask Him for Pastors that truly love Him for real..Acknowledge Him in everything you do and He will direct ur path..really He that seeks Him will find Him amen!

Come fall in love with Jesus so He can save you, and u will have the body of Christ on your side to pray for you when times get rough. Moments of silence as the world calls it doesn’t work when we live in PRACTISING sin...God answers prayers to when we repent which means to turn from this wicked world and come back to Him. Let Jesus comfort you in ALL times of trouble..Jesus really does answer our prayers, it has got to be the most powerful miracle of all that when you talk to Him.... He answers back...We will fly one day, and reach the stars...i am so happy.. i feel like i am flying right now..i love you all and i will pray for you..SAY SOMETHING I WON’T GIVE UP ON YOU....LUVD




WOW!! Inspirational and touching. Denise had a heart that was rare.


.


I appreciate that she can be celebrated for the person she was singularly and not just due to significant others she allowed in her life. She seems to have been a person of great character. You posted before that she was an event allby herself and I believe it.


.


To be able to be that person to not give up on others and remember we none of us are perfect is so special. I understand why she was able touch so many lives and why she is unforgettable.


queen heart angel





She had a little weight on her here. She is still absolutely beautiful.
Look at how perfect her skin still was.
I love Denise’s hairline.
~Paisley Park is in your heart~
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #102 posted 03/26/18 1:53pm

Toban

Vashtix said:

Toban said:

.

I don’t think there’s any need to apologize, you might not be entirely wrong, no day was ever the same and the individual memories of DeBorah that Denise invoked did not truly cause me pain. I just didn’t care to linger in them. It’s similar to the reason why I sometimes don’t respond or don’t quickly respond on here sometime. An ocean like multitude of prosaic little moments locked away in memory can be so overwhelming and so easily released when try to view one piece.

But since you bring it up, what conclusions did you happen draw and or what do you think most people would assume or conclude about our multifaceted relationship?

  1. She was Vanity and I was just a man?
  2. I’m a poet and she was beautiful?
  3. If you can’t be with the one you love, love the one you’re with?
  4. She was also just a girl, standing in front of a boy, asking him to love her?

.

.

Regarding her musing influence…

As a romantic poet I don’t ordinarily write about the physical beauty of a woman, but rather preferred to prose those qualities and manner of a woman in my awkward attempt to rationalize, describe and define the feminine mystique. Yeah, good luck with that, right? Hoping at the very least to poetically convey the answer to the mystery of She that catches and holds my attention, and to explain the Reasons of the Why that has inspired me to go reaching for my pad and pen.

.

Denise was like a stranger that I knew.

Prior to 2001 I didn’t see much of Denise accept for some holidays, when she got married and her frequent visit to see Rick James (no they were not together prior to Prince). However, because they were so much alike, because of listening to DeBorah’s stories and hearing half of their conversations for those many years before Denise and I developed our own relationship, and probably also because Denise assumed that I knew everything that DeBorah knew, Denise and I quickly became close as old friends; particularly in 2006, when she wasn’t or couldn’t drive and I was working 10 miles away from her apartment for that year.

We spent a lot of time hanging out before, during and after shopping for materials for her books, moving her storages, hanging art, working on her cars and repairing whatever might have broken since my last visit. Rarely did we just watch a movie or TV, we talk more than anything else… well, she mostly talked while preparing dinner as I worked something. She was quick to notice when I didn’t wish to speak about something, acknowledging it by shout over the stove’s exhaust fan “Oh YOU DON’T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT, eh? OK, I GET IT.” Which actually meant once she discovered that pulling a personal bit of information out of me was going to be difficult she was just going to changing her tactics.

“Tell me, tell me” she’d say commenting on how I “…seemed to enjoy being lost… in thought,” which provoked a smirk. “Sometimes you remind me of him…” I didn’t need to ask who, I turned and looked at her looking at me, thinking that she was just fishing, and thinking it because DeBorah use to say the same thing to me about Tony, and then later on Prince.

.

Both she and DeBorah seemed to be always search for some way to get a deep belly laugh out of me. They flirted and seduced (information) the same, with a look, a smile and a knowing phrase where a kiss might have left me guessing true intent. They danced around the house wearing sweats doing the most mundane things, just enjoying being silly and having only me as an audience.

I did my thing while observing every glance within every moment and segue of their performance as they pretended to steal my attention when they knew they already had it.

.

.

Now, I wrote this in late 08 or early 09 an attempt to explain how I write. I wasn’t seeing or dating anyone and I had no one in particular in mind.

.

I WROTE HER, (The Method)

.

THE METHOD

.

I process a feeling.

Letting it overwhelm the rational.

I can sense a write is coming;

Engaging pad, pen

and the mental mechanism.

.

She…

The Object of my mood swing?

But why HER within this crowd?

Knowing that which…

instigates,

captivates,

and motivates the method

is more than providence!

So to question inspiration

is not allowed!

____________

I WROTE HER

.

Not knowing where she’d been.

Not knowing what she’d done.

With care I penciled in,

to make the ragged fragments fit with what I did;

though knowing

only

Imagined.

.

As when…

I knew she’d call me.

When…

She held her breath;

She held still;

I held it… as I penned

my number to the pad in the palm of her hand.

.

We’d talk for hours

as if

she were a long lost friend.

.

I anxiously listened to her stories,

her childhood dreams,

the places she’d been,

…the next steps in her future life plan.

.

And

I knew she’d kiss me.

I knew how… I knew when.

.

More then that,

“Goodnight Kiss on a Doorstep”

Or

“An Endearing Peck, Of a Friend.”

.

It was When…

She decided, she wanted to know more of me

Strip off defense that I had kept continually raising.

Noticing how would shift conversations away from me.

.

When finally… She said… “Tell me!”

.

“Tell me, Tell me” became part of her playful phrasings.

“Tell me, Tell me” I begin to smile as she keeps saying.

.

Then Slowly,

Carefully,

Thoughtfully

I began releasing, liberating history stored deep… in memory.

Parts of me buried, suppressed, unseen since experiencing.

Along with the Boyhood Dreams put away, traded, for life’s “practical” realities.

Betraying all the beauty of foolish abstract imaginings.

.

Lost in a permanent game of “Hide and Seek!”

She found this childlike quality that was once me…

By Just Listening.

.

In this… My Theater… she listened.

Paid attention to my personal biography.

Paid her ticket to a private viewing and she held it tightly.

She held my hand hearing all the drama

She held her side through all the comedy.

.

When Suddenly… She kissed me.

Full lipped, tongue slipped, slight flick… pulling me closely.

Then whispering,

“Tell me, Tell me”

“Tell me a bedtime story”

_________

.

EPILOGUE

.

I drew her near me, as the write infers.

Looking lovingly into enamored eyes.

An illustration…

captioned lines poetically describes.

.

This drawing captures

the underlying essence

of the verse.

.

I did not know her… It’s just how…

I wrote her.

.......

As a poet this what I meant in how she'd somehow find her way into my writes.

.

I will answer the rest another time. I haven't been home more than total of 10 days since Christmas and have not had much time to write. If they lock the page just message me.

wave

Great to see you Toban! These poems drew me and they linger. I read the post yesterday but could not respond. I had to sit with the poems and take them in. The line I did not know her . . . it's just how . . .I wrote her. WOW and you had no one in mind; those words say so much.

.

You shared the poems in your post had no one in mind . Did Denise know you mused her? She was a poet too- did she ever share who/what she mused ?

.

I appreciate you making it clear she did not date Rick James prior to Prince. That is a rumor that has legs that has walked for decades. There is so much we have as truth that I feel are just rumors walking through the years and I hope the truths come out - as the Rick James dating Denise. I do not want to assume anything but was she seeing Rick James as just friends? was she trying to help him with his own addictions?

.

Why could she not drive in 2006? It sounds like 2006 was a special year for her to adjust her lifestyle to have to find ways to get where she needed to go pre-Uber days. Your decription of Denise and Deborah make them sound like twins. Did they stay close all their lives?

.

Moments in our memory seep out at the most unexpected times too. Much appreciation to you for sharing some of yours.

Clearly the Rick James rumor does have legs. Not knowing much about her celebrity, I too assumed it was true because of her stopping to see us (or not) when she came to town to visit him.

But first, you have to understand that I or rather we can’t know what (Prince and Vanity) fans don’t know. DeBorah and I (and apparently Denise) have no clue of what is or is not of truly significance regarding what we know.

Furthermore, it’s one thing for me to have witnessed or experienced something. It’s a complete different thing for me to quote what DeBorah or Denise has told me, or for me to share what Denise has written. I don’t have time in most cases and have no way of researching what has never been previously written and or falsely reported. Therefore, I have been reluctant correct what I believe to be false and reluctant to disclose some of the more provocative comments DeBorah has said, or the things that Denise has told me or what she has written regarding Vanity and her time with Prince.

Denise has written in her unpublished books and in early outlines noting many things she was going to write about, most of which never made it into any of her books. The notes seem to be deliberately cryptic, such as “Handcuff Jesse in shower” and statements like (not quoting word for word) Someone beaten black and blue for calling him a pimp, Jill getting kicked in the head with the heel of his boot, Louis pulling a gun on him.

This is 35 years ago, what if Denise is not clear on something that is hearsay, I can’t confirm it, so you might understand my reluctance say anything.

Who would believe that they continued to see each other romantically up until 1989 or 1990. It’s just something I knew, I knew/assumed everyone on the Org knew and never thought further about it.

I currently have no way of proving that Denise made jewelry for him as late as 2005, it was something I was told or heard. My only point in mentioning it would mean nothing more than to show an ongoing relationship with an old friend that had matured beyond The Game they had been playing all those years, and reveal that it had some basis in her artwork, and being the artist he knew her to be.

.

Regarding Rick

I don’t remember what we were doing, working on or what we were discussing that sparked Denise’s open request “… you want to know? Go ahead ask me anything.”

I didn’t know enough about Vanity at that time to ask her anything of true significance, so my first question was about Rick James. Her response was “Oh God No! I was never with Rick” as she rolled her eyes and looked up to heaven. As if to say, “this question again.”

.

I think it was in 1994 or 1995 when Denise would either stop by and or stay over when she was going to visit Rick or after visiting him.

Denise lived in the San Francisco Bay Area and we lived in Rosemont right off the 50 freeway in Sacramento. At the time Rick was being “housed” about 20 minutes away in Folsom prison and Denise would go visit and preach to him.

This was a time when Denise was an over the top zealot. I remember thinking of Rick as being literally being a captive audience, but DeBorah remembers and tells it as if Rick was really into her spiritual visit.

.

Up until she responded that day in my mind her visits back then confirmed the rumor I had heard somewhere years earlier. She writes about how she used all that attention she was receiving from famous men like Rick James in response to what Prince had done and was doing to her.

Adam Ant and the picture she had painted of him that hung in her rooms while on tour was a different story that started before Prince.

She writes that Prince hated Rod Steward; implying that’s why she went out with him. She took her grandmother and several others with her because she heard Rod was cheap.

Rod taking his pants off at the table during dinner, apparently for Shock Value, did not phase Denise or her grandmother.

.

.

The point of the poem was to describe my writing process and how it can be so easily inspired by just about anything, a rock, a river or a moment. In this case a stranger whose manner stood out when she entered a crowded room; like the AMAs.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #103 posted 03/26/18 2:27pm

purplegirl00

Toban said:

.

purplegirl00 said:

Thank you for your reply Toban. Please accept my apology as I assumed different than what you explained up above in regards to the reason for keeping your distance from Denise and finally having to tell her as to why. I drew a premature conclusion and I appreciate your explanation which makes sense. I could see why being around Denise with your sons would've been, at times, a painful reminder of DeBorah as you explained how similar she and Denise were.

.

As you said in an earlier post, Denise mused many. I can see her fitting into the muse of a romantic poem or song, even if she didn't originally muse the writer. Not many can do that. I can see it being difficult expressing thoughts in artform with the unique position you were in with her, without raising eyebrows or receiving judgment.

.

Denise led a fascinating life as Vanity, Denise, and the Evangelist. I get that you might not feel qualified to tell her story, share her memoirs. That's understandable. However, I do hope that DeBorah would seriously consider it as many of us want to know. More importantly it would be a loving tribute to continue her legacy. Denise left items in yours (and her) care for a reason.

.

You said that she "continued making jewelry and cufflinks for him"- was this back in the 80's only or in recent years too? It's good to hear that Prince was checking on Denise and she on him in the 90's, especially since both were going through some difficult life situations and transitions during those years.

I don’t think there’s any need to apologize, you might not be entirely wrong, no day was ever the same and the individual memories of DeBorah that Denise invoked did not truly cause me pain. I just didn’t care to linger in them. It’s similar to the reason why I sometimes don’t respond or don’t quickly respond on here sometime. An ocean like multitude of prosaic little moments locked away in memory can be so overwhelming and so easily released when try to view one piece.

But since you bring it up, what conclusions did you happen draw and or what do you think most people would assume or conclude about our multifaceted relationship?

  1. She was Vanity and I was just a man?
  2. I’m a poet and she was beautiful?
  3. If you can’t be with the one you love, love the one you’re with?
  4. She was also just a girl, standing in front of a boy, asking him to love her?

.

.

Regarding her musing influence…

As a romantic poet I don’t ordinarily write about the physical beauty of a woman, but rather preferred to prose those qualities and manner of a woman in my awkward attempt to rationalize, describe and define the feminine mystique. Yeah, good luck with that, right? Hoping at the very least to poetically convey the answer to the mystery of She that catches and holds my attention, and to explain the Reasons of the Why that has inspired me to go reaching for my pad and pen.

.

Denise was like a stranger that I knew.

Prior to 2001 I didn’t see much of Denise accept for some holidays, when she got married and her frequent visit to see Rick James (no they were not together prior to Prince). However, because they were so much alike, because of listening to DeBorah’s stories and hearing half of their conversations for those many years before Denise and I developed our own relationship, and probably also because Denise assumed that I knew everything that DeBorah knew, Denise and I quickly became close as old friends; particularly in 2006, when she wasn’t or couldn’t drive and I was working 10 miles away from her apartment for that year.

We spent a lot of time hanging out before, during and after shopping for materials for her books, moving her storages, hanging art, working on her cars and repairing whatever might have broken since my last visit. Rarely did we just watch a movie or TV, we talk more than anything else… well, she mostly talked while preparing dinner as I worked something. She was quick to notice when I didn’t wish to speak about something, acknowledging it by shout over the stove’s exhaust fan “Oh YOU DON’T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT, eh? OK, I GET IT.” Which actually meant once she discovered that pulling a personal bit of information out of me was going to be difficult she was just going to changing her tactics.

“Tell me, tell me” she’d say commenting on how I “…seemed to enjoy being lost… in thought,” which provoked a smirk. “Sometimes you remind me of him…” I didn’t need to ask who, I turned and looked at her looking at me, thinking that she was just fishing, and thinking it because DeBorah use to say the same thing to me about Tony, and then later on Prince.

.

Both she and DeBorah seemed to be always search for some way to get a deep belly laugh out of me. They flirted and seduced (information) the same, with a look, a smile and a knowing phrase where a kiss might have left me guessing true intent. They danced around the house wearing sweats doing the most mundane things, just enjoying being silly and having only me as an audience.

I did my thing while observing every glance within every moment and segue of their performance as they pretended to steal my attention when they knew they already had it.

.

.

Now, I wrote this in late 08 or early 09 an attempt to explain how I write. I wasn’t seeing or dating anyone and I had no one in particular in mind.

.

I WROTE HER, (The Method)

.

THE METHOD

.

I process a feeling.

Letting it overwhelm the rational.

I can sense a write is coming;

Engaging pad, pen

and the mental mechanism.

.

She…

The Object of my mood swing?

But why HER within this crowd?

Knowing that which…

instigates,

captivates,

and motivates the method

is more than providence!

So to question inspiration

is not allowed!

____________

I WROTE HER

.

Not knowing where she’d been.

Not knowing what she’d done.

With care I penciled in,

to make the ragged fragments fit with what I did;

though knowing

only

Imagined.

.

As when…

I knew she’d call me.

When…

She held her breath;

She held still;

I held it… as I penned

my number to the pad in the palm of her hand.

.

We’d talk for hours

as if

she were a long lost friend.

.

I anxiously listened to her stories,

her childhood dreams,

the places she’d been,

…the next steps in her future life plan.

.

And

I knew she’d kiss me.

I knew how… I knew when.

.

More then that,

“Goodnight Kiss on a Doorstep”

Or

“An Endearing Peck, Of a Friend.”

.

It was When…

She decided, she wanted to know more of me

Strip off defense that I had kept continually raising.

Noticing how would shift conversations away from me.

.

When finally… She said… “Tell me!”

.

“Tell me, Tell me” became part of her playful phrasings.

“Tell me, Tell me” I begin to smile as she keeps saying.

.

Then Slowly,

Carefully,

Thoughtfully

I began releasing, liberating history stored deep… in memory.

Parts of me buried, suppressed, unseen since experiencing.

Along with the Boyhood Dreams put away, traded, for life’s “practical” realities.

Betraying all the beauty of foolish abstract imaginings.

.

Lost in a permanent game of “Hide and Seek!”

She found this childlike quality that was once me…

By Just Listening.

.

In this… My Theater… she listened.

Paid attention to my personal biography.

Paid her ticket to a private viewing and she held it tightly.

She held my hand hearing all the drama

She held her side through all the comedy.

.

When Suddenly… She kissed me.

Full lipped, tongue slipped, slight flick… pulling me closely.

Then whispering,

“Tell me, Tell me”

“Tell me a bedtime story”

_________

.

EPILOGUE

.

I drew her near me, as the write infers.

Looking lovingly into enamored eyes.

An illustration…

captioned lines poetically describes.

.

This drawing captures

the underlying essence

of the verse.

.

I did not know her… It’s just how…

I wrote her.

.......

As a poet this what I meant in how she'd somehow find her way into my writes.

.

I will answer the rest another time. I haven't been home more than total of 10 days since Christmas and have not had much time to write. If they lock the page just message me.

Hi Toban, I was out of town most of the weekend and finally sat down to ponder your post a bit more, particularly the part about the assumption I made and apologized for. Since I did not know Denise in real life or you and I'm only going by what you've shared about your time with her. Therefore, my thought/ conclusion as to why you avoided Denise was simple- so that you would not fall for her. Now, your suggestions are thought provoking and I will indulge you on those and maybe throw one or two back to you for clarification.

.

  • She was Vanity and I was just a man?

This would not be a thought to enter my mind because "Vanity", the persona, Denise put away with her having given her life to Christ and becoming an Evangelist. Although people still call her and knew her as Vanity in later days, she was not that person anymore. Right? Also, you were not just any man, you were in the family and was married to her sister. So I wouldn't have put those two things together.

.

  • I’m a poet and she was beautiful?

Both of these are true. I'll be honest, based on the poems you've shared, the thought of these together has crossed my mind. Denise may not have been the intentional muse from the start, but may have fit in with your write.

.

  • If you can’t be with the one you love, love the one you’re with?

This thought did not cross my mind AT ALL but now that you mention it, it may have been an assumption/ conclusion I could see some coming up with- again based on what you've shared. However, if you could, please clarify which one of you this would've referred to because it could go either way.

.

  • She was also just a girl, standing in front of a boy, asking him to love her?

Even by her own admission, Denise had times of loneliness. However, I wouldn't have entertained this thought either, because like the one above this, I wouldn't have imagined such an expectation knowing that you were the husband of her sister and father of her nephews. Again, not having known her in real life, I only assumed appropriate boundaries and everyone going by those or trying hard to- hence MY assumption of the reason you avoided her.

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Reply #104 posted 03/26/18 3:30pm

PennyPurple

avatar

The story of Rod Stewart cracks me up. lol

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Reply #105 posted 03/26/18 4:08pm

FlyOnTheWall

purplegirl00 said:

Toban said:

.

I don’t think there’s any need to apologize, you might not be entirely wrong, no day was ever the same and the individual memories of DeBorah that Denise invoked did not truly cause me pain. I just didn’t care to linger in them. It’s similar to the reason why I sometimes don’t respond or don’t quickly respond on here sometime. An ocean like multitude of prosaic little moments locked away in memory can be so overwhelming and so easily released when try to view one piece.

But since you bring it up, what conclusions did you happen draw and or what do you think most people would assume or conclude about our multifaceted relationship?

  1. She was Vanity and I was just a man?
  2. I’m a poet and she was beautiful?
  3. If you can’t be with the one you love, love the one you’re with?
  4. She was also just a girl, standing in front of a boy, asking him to love her?

.

.

Regarding her musing influence…

As a romantic poet I don’t ordinarily write about the physical beauty of a woman, but rather preferred to prose those qualities and manner of a woman in my awkward attempt to rationalize, describe and define the feminine mystique. Yeah, good luck with that, right? Hoping at the very least to poetically convey the answer to the mystery of She that catches and holds my attention, and to explain the Reasons of the Why that has inspired me to go reaching for my pad and pen.

.

Denise was like a stranger that I knew.

Prior to 2001 I didn’t see much of Denise accept for some holidays, when she got married and her frequent visit to see Rick James (no they were not together prior to Prince). However, because they were so much alike, because of listening to DeBorah’s stories and hearing half of their conversations for those many years before Denise and I developed our own relationship, and probably also because Denise assumed that I knew everything that DeBorah knew, Denise and I quickly became close as old friends; particularly in 2006, when she wasn’t or couldn’t drive and I was working 10 miles away from her apartment for that year.

We spent a lot of time hanging out before, during and after shopping for materials for her books, moving her storages, hanging art, working on her cars and repairing whatever might have broken since my last visit. Rarely did we just watch a movie or TV, we talk more than anything else… well, she mostly talked while preparing dinner as I worked something. She was quick to notice when I didn’t wish to speak about something, acknowledging it by shout over the stove’s exhaust fan “Oh YOU DON’T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT, eh? OK, I GET IT.” Which actually meant once she discovered that pulling a personal bit of information out of me was going to be difficult she was just going to changing her tactics.

“Tell me, tell me” she’d say commenting on how I “…seemed to enjoy being lost… in thought,” which provoked a smirk. “Sometimes you remind me of him…” I didn’t need to ask who, I turned and looked at her looking at me, thinking that she was just fishing, and thinking it because DeBorah use to say the same thing to me about Tony, and then later on Prince.

.

Both she and DeBorah seemed to be always search for some way to get a deep belly laugh out of me. They flirted and seduced (information) the same, with a look, a smile and a knowing phrase where a kiss might have left me guessing true intent. They danced around the house wearing sweats doing the most mundane things, just enjoying being silly and having only me as an audience.

I did my thing while observing every glance within every moment and segue of their performance as they pretended to steal my attention when they knew they already had it.

.

.

Now, I wrote this in late 08 or early 09 an attempt to explain how I write. I wasn’t seeing or dating anyone and I had no one in particular in mind.

.

I WROTE HER, (The Method)

.

THE METHOD

.

I process a feeling.

Letting it overwhelm the rational.

I can sense a write is coming;

Engaging pad, pen

and the mental mechanism.

.

She…

The Object of my mood swing?

But why HER within this crowd?

Knowing that which…

instigates,

captivates,

and motivates the method

is more than providence!

So to question inspiration

is not allowed!

____________

I WROTE HER

.

Not knowing where she’d been.

Not knowing what she’d done.

With care I penciled in,

to make the ragged fragments fit with what I did;

though knowing

only

Imagined.

.

As when…

I knew she’d call me.

When…

She held her breath;

She held still;

I held it… as I penned

my number to the pad in the palm of her hand.

.

We’d talk for hours

as if

she were a long lost friend.

.

I anxiously listened to her stories,

her childhood dreams,

the places she’d been,

…the next steps in her future life plan.

.

And

I knew she’d kiss me.

I knew how… I knew when.

.

More then that,

“Goodnight Kiss on a Doorstep”

Or

“An Endearing Peck, Of a Friend.”

.

It was When…

She decided, she wanted to know more of me

Strip off defense that I had kept continually raising.

Noticing how would shift conversations away from me.

.

When finally… She said… “Tell me!”

.

“Tell me, Tell me” became part of her playful phrasings.

“Tell me, Tell me” I begin to smile as she keeps saying.

.

Then Slowly,

Carefully,

Thoughtfully

I began releasing, liberating history stored deep… in memory.

Parts of me buried, suppressed, unseen since experiencing.

Along with the Boyhood Dreams put away, traded, for life’s “practical” realities.

Betraying all the beauty of foolish abstract imaginings.

.

Lost in a permanent game of “Hide and Seek!”

She found this childlike quality that was once me…

By Just Listening.

.

In this… My Theater… she listened.

Paid attention to my personal biography.

Paid her ticket to a private viewing and she held it tightly.

She held my hand hearing all the drama

She held her side through all the comedy.

.

When Suddenly… She kissed me.

Full lipped, tongue slipped, slight flick… pulling me closely.

Then whispering,

“Tell me, Tell me”

“Tell me a bedtime story”

_________

.

EPILOGUE

.

I drew her near me, as the write infers.

Looking lovingly into enamored eyes.

An illustration…

captioned lines poetically describes.

.

This drawing captures

the underlying essence

of the verse.

.

I did not know her… It’s just how…

I wrote her.

.......

As a poet this what I meant in how she'd somehow find her way into my writes.

.

I will answer the rest another time. I haven't been home more than total of 10 days since Christmas and have not had much time to write. If they lock the page just message me.

Hi Toban, I was out of town most of the weekend and finally sat down to ponder your post a bit more, particularly the part about the assumption I made and apologized for. Since I did not know Denise in real life or you and I'm only going by what you've shared about your time with her. Therefore, my thought/ conclusion as to why you avoided Denise was simple- so that you would not fall for her. Now, your suggestions are thought provoking and I will indulge you on those and maybe throw one or two back to you for clarification.

.

  • She was Vanity and I was just a man?

This would not be a thought to enter my mind because "Vanity", the persona, Denise put away with her having given her life to Christ and becoming an Evangelist. Although people still call her and knew her as Vanity in later days, she was not that person anymore. Right? Also, you were not just any man, you were in the family and was married to her sister. So I wouldn't have put those two things together.

.

  • I’m a poet and she was beautiful?

Both of these are true. I'll be honest, based on the poems you've shared, the thought of these together has crossed my mind. Denise may not have been the intentional muse from the start, but may have fit in with your write.

.

  • If you can’t be with the one you love, love the one you’re with?

This thought did not cross my mind AT ALL but now that you mention it, it may have been an assumption/ conclusion I could see some coming up with- again based on what you've shared. However, if you could, please clarify which one of you this would've referred to because it could go either way.

.

  • She was also just a girl, standing in front of a boy, asking him to love her?

Even by her own admission, Denise had times of loneliness. However, I wouldn't have entertained this thought either, because like the one above this, I wouldn't have imagined such an expectation knowing that you were the husband of her sister and father of her nephews. Again, not having known her in real life, I only assumed appropriate boundaries and everyone going by those or trying hard to- hence MY assumption of the reason you avoided her.

I'm so confused.

[Edited 3/26/18 17:48pm]

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Reply #106 posted 03/26/18 10:38pm

Goddess4Real

avatar

Toban said:

Vashtix said:

wave

Great to see you Toban! These poems drew me and they linger. I read the post yesterday but could not respond. I had to sit with the poems and take them in. The line I did not know her . . . it's just how . . .I wrote her. WOW and you had no one in mind; those words say so much.

.

You shared the poems in your post had no one in mind . Did Denise know you mused her? She was a poet too- did she ever share who/what she mused ?

.

I appreciate you making it clear she did not date Rick James prior to Prince. That is a rumor that has legs that has walked for decades. There is so much we have as truth that I feel are just rumors walking through the years and I hope the truths come out - as the Rick James dating Denise. I do not want to assume anything but was she seeing Rick James as just friends? was she trying to help him with his own addictions?

.

Why could she not drive in 2006? It sounds like 2006 was a special year for her to adjust her lifestyle to have to find ways to get where she needed to go pre-Uber days. Your decription of Denise and Deborah make them sound like twins. Did they stay close all their lives?

.

Moments in our memory seep out at the most unexpected times too. Much appreciation to you for sharing some of yours.

Clearly the Rick James rumor does have legs. Not knowing much about her celebrity, I too assumed it was true because of her stopping to see us (or not) when she came to town to visit him.

But first, you have to understand that I or rather we can’t know what (Prince and Vanity) fans don’t know. DeBorah and I (and apparently Denise) have no clue of what is or is not of truly significance regarding what we know.

Furthermore, it’s one thing for me to have witnessed or experienced something. It’s a complete different thing for me to quote what DeBorah or Denise has told me, or for me to share what Denise has written. I don’t have time in most cases and have no way of researching what has never been previously written and or falsely reported. Therefore, I have been reluctant correct what I believe to be false and reluctant to disclose some of the more provocative comments DeBorah has said, or the things that Denise has told me or what she has written regarding Vanity and her time with Prince.

Denise has written in her unpublished books and in early outlines noting many things she was going to write about, most of which never made it into any of her books. The notes seem to be deliberately cryptic, such as “Handcuff Jesse in shower” and statements like (not quoting word for word) Someone beaten black and blue for calling him a pimp, Jill getting kicked in the head with the heel of his boot, Louis pulling a gun on him.

This is 35 years ago, what if Denise is not clear on something that is hearsay, I can’t confirm it, so you might understand my reluctance say anything.

Who would believe that they continued to see each other romantically up until 1989 or 1990. It’s just something I knew, I knew/assumed everyone on the Org knew and never thought further about it.

I currently have no way of proving that Denise made jewelry for him as late as 2005, it was something I was told or heard. My only point in mentioning it would mean nothing more than to show an ongoing relationship with an old friend that had matured beyond The Game they had been playing all those years, and reveal that it had some basis in her artwork, and being the artist he knew her to be.

.

Regarding Rick

I don’t remember what we were doing, working on or what we were discussing that sparked Denise’s open request “… you want to know? Go ahead ask me anything.”

I didn’t know enough about Vanity at that time to ask her anything of true significance, so my first question was about Rick James. Her response was “Oh God No! I was never with Rick” as she rolled her eyes and looked up to heaven. As if to say, “this question again.”

.

I think it was in 1994 or 1995 when Denise would either stop by and or stay over when she was going to visit Rick or after visiting him.

Denise lived in the San Francisco Bay Area and we lived in Rosemont right off the 50 freeway in Sacramento. At the time Rick was being “housed” about 20 minutes away in Folsom prison and Denise would go visit and preach to him.

This was a time when Denise was an over the top zealot. I remember thinking of Rick as being literally being a captive audience, but DeBorah remembers and tells it as if Rick was really into her spiritual visit.

.

Up until she responded that day in my mind her visits back then confirmed the rumor I had heard somewhere years earlier. She writes about how she used all that attention she was receiving from famous men like Rick James in response to what Prince had done and was doing to her.

Adam Ant and the picture she had painted of him that hung in her rooms while on tour was a different story that started before Prince.

She writes that Prince hated Rod Steward; implying that’s why she went out with him. She took her grandmother and several others with her because she heard Rod was cheap.

Rod taking his pants off at the table during dinner, apparently for Shock Value, did not phase Denise or her grandmother.

.

.

The point of the poem was to describe my writing process and how it can be so easily inspired by just about anything, a rock, a river or a moment. In this case a stranger whose manner stood out when she entered a crowded room; like the AMAs.

Thanks, learn something new nod today I watched By Hooker By Crook episode of Miami Vice Ep. 20 Season 3 (1987) which Don Johnson directed and she was amazing, especially her scenes with Melanie Griffith.

Keep Calm & Listen To Prince
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Reply #107 posted 03/27/18 4:39am

Vashtix

Vanity was good in her supporting role. She was a true actress. We cannot undo life and choices made but I cannot help but wonder what her future would have been if she had continued acting and not gone the route of the drugs.

.

We see glimpses and I wish there were more things of her on screen.

.

Does anyone know did she ever do stage or just film and TV?

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Reply #108 posted 03/27/18 7:53pm

206Michelle

May God rest her soul.
Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above
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Reply #109 posted 03/28/18 8:27am

206Michelle

OldFriends4Sale said:

Image may contain: 1 person

This is a fabulous photo! She aged like fine wine.

Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above
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Reply #110 posted 03/28/18 2:10pm

purplegirl00

Toban said:

Vashtix said:

wave

Great to see you Toban! These poems drew me and they linger. I read the post yesterday but could not respond. I had to sit with the poems and take them in. The line I did not know her . . . it's just how . . .I wrote her. WOW and you had no one in mind; those words say so much.

.

You shared the poems in your post had no one in mind . Did Denise know you mused her? She was a poet too- did she ever share who/what she mused ?

.

I appreciate you making it clear she did not date Rick James prior to Prince. That is a rumor that has legs that has walked for decades. There is so much we have as truth that I feel are just rumors walking through the years and I hope the truths come out - as the Rick James dating Denise. I do not want to assume anything but was she seeing Rick James as just friends? was she trying to help him with his own addictions?

.

Why could she not drive in 2006? It sounds like 2006 was a special year for her to adjust her lifestyle to have to find ways to get where she needed to go pre-Uber days. Your decription of Denise and Deborah make them sound like twins. Did they stay close all their lives?

.

Moments in our memory seep out at the most unexpected times too. Much appreciation to you for sharing some of yours.

Clearly the Rick James rumor does have legs. Not knowing much about her celebrity, I too assumed it was true because of her stopping to see us (or not) when she came to town to visit him.

But first, you have to understand that I or rather we can’t know what (Prince and Vanity) fans don’t know. DeBorah and I (and apparently Denise) have no clue of what is or is not of truly significance regarding what we know.

Furthermore, it’s one thing for me to have witnessed or experienced something. It’s a complete different thing for me to quote what DeBorah or Denise has told me, or for me to share what Denise has written. I don’t have time in most cases and have no way of researching what has never been previously written and or falsely reported. Therefore, I have been reluctant correct what I believe to be false and reluctant to disclose some of the more provocative comments DeBorah has said, or the things that Denise has told me or what she has written regarding Vanity and her time with Prince.

Denise has written in her unpublished books and in early outlines noting many things she was going to write about, most of which never made it into any of her books. The notes seem to be deliberately cryptic, such as “Handcuff Jesse in shower” and statements like (not quoting word for word) Someone beaten black and blue for calling him a pimp, Jill getting kicked in the head with the heel of his boot, Louis pulling a gun on him.

This is 35 years ago, what if Denise is not clear on something that is hearsay, I can’t confirm it, so you might understand my reluctance say anything.

Who would believe that they continued to see each other romantically up until 1989 or 1990. It’s just something I knew, I knew/assumed everyone on the Org knew and never thought further about it.

I currently have no way of proving that Denise made jewelry for him as late as 2005, it was something I was told or heard. My only point in mentioning it would mean nothing more than to show an ongoing relationship with an old friend that had matured beyond The Game they had been playing all those years, and reveal that it had some basis in her artwork, and being the artist he knew her to be.

.

Regarding Rick

I don’t remember what we were doing, working on or what we were discussing that sparked Denise’s open request “… you want to know? Go ahead ask me anything.”

I didn’t know enough about Vanity at that time to ask her anything of true significance, so my first question was about Rick James. Her response was “Oh God No! I was never with Rick” as she rolled her eyes and looked up to heaven. As if to say, “this question again.”

.

I think it was in 1994 or 1995 when Denise would either stop by and or stay over when she was going to visit Rick or after visiting him.

Denise lived in the San Francisco Bay Area and we lived in Rosemont right off the 50 freeway in Sacramento. At the time Rick was being “housed” about 20 minutes away in Folsom prison and Denise would go visit and preach to him.

This was a time when Denise was an over the top zealot. I remember thinking of Rick as being literally being a captive audience, but DeBorah remembers and tells it as if Rick was really into her spiritual visit.

.

Up until she responded that day in my mind her visits back then confirmed the rumor I had heard somewhere years earlier. She writes about how she used all that attention she was receiving from famous men like Rick James in response to what Prince had done and was doing to her.

Adam Ant and the picture she had painted of him that hung in her rooms while on tour was a different story that started before Prince.

She writes that Prince hated Rod Steward; implying that’s why she went out with him. She took her grandmother and several others with her because she heard Rod was cheap.

Rod taking his pants off at the table during dinner, apparently for Shock Value, did not phase Denise or her grandmother.

.

.

The point of the poem was to describe my writing process and how it can be so easily inspired by just about anything, a rock, a river or a moment. In this case a stranger whose manner stood out when she entered a crowded room; like the AMAs.

It's understandable if you cannot share something that you did not hear first hand from Denise through conversation or her writings if you have no context or ability to research.

I think some people were definitely shocked that Prince and Denise were seeing each other so late into the 80s as most assumed they were completely done in '83. In fact, many people were surprised that they were still in touch up until a few years before their deaths. Thank you for answering my question about the jewelry and cuff links. Do you remember if the person who told you said why she stopped in 2005?

I'm glad you cleared up that Denise and Rick James were not a thing before Prince. I thought you said something about that before and that's why it rang in my head when it was brought up in another thread. It's great that Denise went and ministered to him in prison and I LOVE that she used the attention she received from him to get back at Prince. clapping clapping lol lol

YUCK to Rod Stewart taking his pants off in front of her and her grandmother. What was he thinking? I can't imagine that was "sexy" if it didn't phase them. falloff

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Reply #111 posted 04/01/18 11:38pm

Goddess4Real

avatar

206Michelle said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Image may contain: 1 person

This is a fabulous photo! She aged like fine wine.

yeahthat worship

Keep Calm & Listen To Prince
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Reply #112 posted 04/06/18 5:50pm

Toban

Vashtix said:

Vanity was good in her supporting role. She was a true actress. We cannot undo life and choices made but I cannot help but wonder what her future would have been if she had continued acting and not gone the route of the drugs.

.

We see glimpses and I wish there were more things of her on screen.

.

Does anyone know did she ever do stage or just film and TV?

Yes... she did stage. I have some photos and or an old program of one play.

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Reply #113 posted 04/10/18 10:42am

Toban

“I’ve never seen Snow Fall.” I quietly interjected in the middle of her story as she took a breath. The comment briefly stunned her into silence as she attempted to fully process it. Was it that her being Canadian that she couldn’t comprehend a childhood without snow?

The resulting series of mixed expressions that began washing across her face was unforgettable… with sorrow being the most remarkable… the most memorable. She actually felt sad for me as if I, thus far, had lived a denied life, that I had not seen or experience something that was so magical in hers. She was literally at a loss for words and comically began quickly pacing and stumbling around like I Love Lucy doing Fred Sanford trying to express the word “WOW” but acting like she just couldn’t quite get the word out loud enough or big enough to properly impress upon me her feelings and thoughts on the matter.

With one eyebrow raised I just watched her antics trying my best not to laugh, and not wanting to tell her how much it reminded me of her sister.

Listening to her stories of growing up in Canada, her descriptive imagery would just take me there. I could picture her and DeBorah/Debbie making Snow Angels and then lying there watching the snow fall.

To this day I still have never seen Snow Fall.

.

I’m certain that I don’t see what most people see when they think of Denise or Vanity. I was drawn by her excitement and wonderment of everything, especially the simple things and then also the silly things. She wanted to understand how things worked, her creative artistic mind was always analyzing possibilities for innovation. Which is when I’d get a text and before I could finish reading it I’d get a phone call… “Hi Bro!”

The list of ideas for inventions, movies, TV series, business, fashion, baking, etc.… that she ran by me was constant. I believe she began calling me was mostly due to a tandem swing I had built for my sons and my 2002 CA State Fair project (an automatic tracking camera base) which took second place.

Gravity was a favorite topic of ours, but initially for two very different reasons. When she was in pain or while we waited for her lab work to return or while she was hooked up and going through some medical procedure Denise would often ask me to tell her a story, recite poetry or she’d ask me to just talk.

Can you imagine us discussing the Flyby Anomaly, the reason for the shape of the moon and 2 high tides per day, and hurricane storm surge all being evidence of how gravity works and how it is easily altered.

That it appeared to be a secret deliberately kept secret from mankind was something we both considered.

I hoped but knew this wouldn't be the same. Even before I arrived I knew something was different, but mainly it was when I looked at the hospital visitor’s pass that I received 9 hours before she died.

“2/15, 3:02am, CCU 06, Visitor #17,” 17? The last few times she was in the hospital only I had been there.

.

.

To change the subject...

Another one of my most favorite memories involves a holiday punch.

I believe it was Christmas 2000. Having recently heard that Denise was married to Jesus, I understood but I honestly didn’t think that she possibly thought of them as a couple. That is until Denise handed me my gift with the attached card said “from Jesus and Denise.”

I looked at her with a curious expression and ask “who’s Hay-soos?” the Spanish pronunciation for Jesus. She quickly took the gift back and started to look over what she had written on the card before she fully realized what I had said.

She didn’t even look up to see me grinning, she just balled up her fist and punched me straight in my chest as I had started to giggle and laugh.

The gift from Denise that year was a personalized Bible. It was the first time I saw in print how she had always pronounced my name.

DeBorah immediately told her the correct spelling again, as she had many times before. Often getting off the phone after speaking with Denise asking me “why does she pronounce your name like that?

Denise offered to correct the engraving but I said it wasn’t necessary; I thought it was perfect as it was.

Eight years later when I began to write again Toban became my pen-name.

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Reply #114 posted 04/11/18 6:08am

purplegirl00

Toban said:

“I’ve never seen Snow Fall.” I quietly interjected in the middle of her story as she took a breath. The comment briefly stunned her into silence as she attempted to fully process it. Was it that her being Canadian that she couldn’t comprehend a childhood without snow?

The resulting series of mixed expressions that began washing across her face was unforgettable… with sorrow being the most remarkable… the most memorable. She actually felt sad for me as if I, thus far, had lived a denied life, that I had not seen or experience something that was so magical in hers. She was literally at a loss for words and comically began quickly pacing and stumbling around like I Love Lucy doing Fred Sanford trying to express the word “WOW” but acting like she just couldn’t quite get the word out loud enough or big enough to properly impress upon me her feelings and thoughts on the matter.

With one eyebrow raised I just watched her antics trying my best not to laugh, and not wanting to tell her how much it reminded me of her sister.

Listening to her stories of growing up in Canada, her descriptive imagery would just take me there. I could picture her and DeBorah/Debbie making Snow Angels and then lying there watching the snow fall.

To this day I still have never seen Snow Fall.

.

I’m certain that I don’t see what most people see when they think of Denise or Vanity. I was drawn by her excitement and wonderment of everything, especially the simple things and then also the silly things. She wanted to understand how things worked, her creative artistic mind was always analyzing possibilities for innovation. Which is when I’d get a text and before I could finish reading it I’d get a phone call… “Hi Bro!”

The list of ideas for inventions, movies, TV series, business, fashion, baking, etc.… that she ran by me was constant. I believe she began calling me was mostly due to a tandem swing I had built for my sons and my 2002 CA State Fair project (an automatic tracking camera base) which took second place.

Gravity was a favorite topic of ours, but initially for two very different reasons. When she was in pain or while we waited for her lab work to return or while she was hooked up and going through some medical procedure Denise would often ask me to tell her a story, recite poetry or she’d ask me to just talk.

Can you imagine us discussing the Flyby Anomaly, the reason for the shape of the moon and 2 high tides per day, and hurricane storm surge all being evidence of how gravity works and how it is easily altered.

That it appeared to be a secret deliberately kept secret from mankind was something we both considered.

I hoped but knew this wouldn't be the same. Even before I arrived I knew something was different, but mainly it was when I looked at the hospital visitor’s pass that I received 9 hours before she died.

“2/15, 3:02am, CCU 06, Visitor #17,” 17? The last few times she was in the hospital only I had been there.

.

.

To change the subject...

Another one of my most favorite memories involves a holiday punch.

I believe it was Christmas 2000. Having recently heard that Denise was married to Jesus, I understood but I honestly didn’t think that she possibly thought of them as a couple. That is until Denise handed me my gift with the attached card said “from Jesus and Denise.”

I looked at her with a curious expression and ask “who’s Hay-soos?” the Spanish pronunciation for Jesus. She quickly took the gift back and started to look over what she had written on the card before she fully realized what I had said.

She didn’t even look up to see me grinning, she just balled up her fist and punched me straight in my chest as I had started to giggle and laugh.

The gift from Denise that year was a personalized Bible. It was the first time I saw in print how she had always pronounced my name.

DeBorah immediately told her the correct spelling again, as she had many times before. Often getting off the phone after speaking with Denise asking me “why does she pronounce your name like that?

Denise offered to correct the engraving but I said it wasn’t necessary; I thought it was perfect as it was.

Eight years later when I began to write again Toban became my pen-name.

Hi Toban, Thank you for sharing your memories of Denise with us.

Because I live in a place where it snows ALL.THE.TIME it seems, I TOTALLY get her reaction to you! In fact, as I type this sentence, snow is falling.

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Most people think celebrities live in a different world than the rest of us, ordinary people- which is true to some degree. However, the person of Denise or even "Vanity" was very human, normal, and experienced regular life trials. Everything we saw of Denise as Evangelist or "Vanity" the singer/ actress was her public life. You knew her as family so your view is very different than ours. Thank you again for giving us a glimpse of who she was.

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I have a friend, an astrophysicist, who makes the case that gravity does not exist. Talk about losing my ever loving mind! biggrin He's a great guy and very scholarly but every encounter my husband I have with him, leads to a thought provoking conversation. More questions than answers. I'm very sure that if I had to endure a nerve wrecking or physically painful situation like Denise had to, his conversation would make me forget about it.

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Reply #115 posted 04/11/18 10:31pm

Goddess4Real

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Vanity 6 show in detroit 04/08/1983 via the awesome mandragone YT page worship https://www.youtube.com/c...azH7bop6UA

[Edited 4/11/18 22:32pm]

Keep Calm & Listen To Prince
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Reply #116 posted 04/15/18 9:54am

Toban

donnyenglish said:

Goddess4Real said:

Retweeted

One of many letters Prince wrote to Vanity when she was sick. Somebody needs to get these onions outta here. 😩

When was this written? I cannot help but think about the “Be Cool” lyrics that were found at Paisley after his passing.

This appears to have been written in 1994. Denise mentions that the letter was the first contact in a few years (since that time Kim called all night).

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Forums > Associated artists & people > In Remembrance of DENISE KATRINA MATTHEWS