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Thread started 10/21/16 10:13am

AnnaStesia91

Do fans view Prince's legacy unrealistically, therefore have unrealistic expectations...

WE all know that Prince was one of the greatest musicians to ever walk the Earth and WE know how much of a genius he was, but I'm starting to think because our perspective as fans is SO different than the general public, sometimes we can't see the bigger picture especially from a financial standpoint. We as fans will never lose interest in Prince but if this train is gonna keep moving we are gonna have to put up with some hits collections and some practical type releases.
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Reply #1 posted 10/21/16 10:42am

NorthC

Previously unreleased songs really are for fans only. They're not going to change anyone's mind about Prince. And he was so inredibly creative that only diehard fans would want to hear all his music. But I think there's enough of us to make a The Vault Volume 1/2/3 etc a success... Whoever is going to handle "the estate" will realize that that there are plenty of Prince fans who want to hear his unreleased songs. And of course no one is going to put out a box set containing 30 hours of soundchecks and rehearsals, so some of the music in the Vault will probably just stay there. But I do think some good compilations featuring stuff like Witness, All My Dreams etc could be succesful.
Don't ever lose your dreams.
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Reply #2 posted 10/21/16 10:56am

AnnaStesia91

NorthC said:

Previously unreleased songs really are for fans only. They're not going to change anyone's mind about Prince. And he was so inredibly creative that only diehard fans would want to hear all his music. But I think there's enough of us to make a The Vault Volume 1/2/3 etc a success... Whoever is going to handle "the estate" will realize that that there are plenty of Prince fans who want to hear his unreleased songs. And of course no one is going to put out a box set containing 30 hours of soundchecks and rehearsals, so some of the music in the Vault will probably just stay there. But I do think some good compilations featuring stuff like Witness, All My Dreams etc could be succesful.


And I can see it being a possibility down the line but this is 6 months in, people are really complaining about this hits compilation as if the causal fan or the general public really cares about what we do. Our time will come later after the cash cow has been milked, that's just how death works. This is business at the end of the day ...
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Reply #3 posted 10/21/16 11:02am

Noodled24

AnnaStesia91 said:

WE all know that Prince was one of the greatest musicians to ever walk the Earth and WE know how much of a genius he was, but I'm starting to think because our perspective as fans is SO different than the general public, sometimes we can't see the bigger picture especially from a financial standpoint. We as fans will never lose interest in Prince but if this train is gonna keep moving we are gonna have to put up with some hits collections and some practical type releases.


Yeah, I just don't see how this is at all practical? 6 months ago there was a feeding frenzy on Prince albums, mainly the hits collections... if joe public bought a hits collection 6 months ago, are they ready for another one 6 months later, comprising 50% songs they bought earlier in the year?

If it doesn't sell huge numbers, where does that leave future releases?

I don't see what they'd loose by skipping Prince4Ever and going directly to the PR Remaster.

[Edited 10/21/16 15:44pm]

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Reply #4 posted 10/21/16 11:24am

skywalker

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I don't think we have unrealistic expectations.

-

Compare how Prince's legacy has (thusfar) been handled compared to Springsteen, Michael Jackson, Madonna, The Rolling Stones, James Brown, Elvis, The Beatles, The Doors, U2, Jimi Hendrix, etc.

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Most of the above mentioned have had their back catalog remastered, rereleased, and cared for with outtakes, raritiies, concert footage, and books to match.

-

Prince (usually) gave not one shit about his maintaining his legacy, past releases, etc in a similar "traditional" manner. He almost NEVER had any of the above mentioned stuff....things that most fans expect/want from an artist of Prince's caliber.

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Now that Prince has made it to the afterworld, we fans hope that his estate can start treating his legacy/business/brand like he could/should have been.

-

I am not talking about crass selling out of Prince songs to go with selling breakfast cereal. It can be done tastefully and respectfully. I just wouldn't mind seeing some funky Prince t-shirts at hipster stores aimed at the cool kids.

[Edited 10/21/16 14:15pm]

"New Power slide...."
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Reply #5 posted 10/21/16 3:24pm

Mumio

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These days, I'm not sure what the fans are thinking. It's constant bitching about every single thing that's been done or going to be done, complaining about music that's going to be released along with promises and threats to not support Bremer/Londell/the estate/the family/Graceland Holdings/PP and so on and so forth. The way things are going, there will be nothing left standing. Then people will REALLY have something to bitch about...and they have no one to blame but themselves. The lack of support for Prince's legacy and what must be done to keep it alive and make it thrive among fans is just appalling. I can't believe the things people say shake

[Edited 10/21/16 15:24pm]

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
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Reply #6 posted 10/21/16 3:42pm

DiamondsnPearl
s44

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I dont have to put up with shit...if I like it good if I dont then I'll pass. I did the same when P was alive and aint nothing changed.

RIP Prince I will forever heart and miss U
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Reply #7 posted 10/21/16 3:47pm

Mumio

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DiamondsnPearls44 said:

I dont have to put up with shit...if I like it good if I dont then I'll pass. I did the same when P was alive and aint nothing changed.


hug That's cool.

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
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Reply #8 posted 10/21/16 3:47pm

DiamondsnPearl
s44

avatar

Mumio said:

DiamondsnPearls44 said:

I dont have to put up with shit...if I like it good if I dont then I'll pass. I did the same when P was alive and aint nothing changed.


hug That's cool.

hug

RIP Prince I will forever heart and miss U
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Reply #9 posted 10/21/16 3:51pm

rogifan

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Mumio said:

These days, I'm not sure what the fans are thinking. It's constant bitching about every single thing that's been done or going to be done, complaining about music that's going to be released along with promises and threats to not support Bremer/Londell/the estate/the family/Graceland Holdings/PP and so on and so forth. The way things are going, there will be nothing left standing. Then people will REALLY have something to bitch about...and they have no one to blame but themselves. The lack of support for Prince's legacy and what must be done to keep it alive and make it thrive among fans is just appalling. I can't believe the things people say shake

[Edited 10/21/16 15:24pm]


Doesn't help when you have people like Funkenberry joining in. And then of course the conspiracy theorists who think WB murdered Prince and everything being done is just to enrich the suits and his family.
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #10 posted 10/21/16 3:56pm

DiamondsnPearl
s44

avatar

rogifan said:

Mumio said:

These days, I'm not sure what the fans are thinking. It's constant bitching about every single thing that's been done or going to be done, complaining about music that's going to be released along with promises and threats to not support Bremer/Londell/the estate/the family/Graceland Holdings/PP and so on and so forth. The way things are going, there will be nothing left standing. Then people will REALLY have something to bitch about...and they have no one to blame but themselves. The lack of support for Prince's legacy and what must be done to keep it alive and make it thrive among fans is just appalling. I can't believe the things people say shake

[Edited 10/21/16 15:24pm]

Doesn't help when you have people like Funkenberry joining in. And then of course the conspiracy theorists who think WB murdered Prince and everything being done is just to enrich the suits and his family.

and u critiquing everything folks say lol

RIP Prince I will forever heart and miss U
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Reply #11 posted 10/21/16 4:36pm

CynicKill

As far as the general public is concerned Prince burned that bridge decades ago.

There's enough fans around to keep the interest in unreleased material very lucrative IMO.

Also, with no family of his own and NO WILL to speak of, I have no problem with his siblings inheriting the residuals.

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Reply #12 posted 10/21/16 5:05pm

Noodled24

rogifan said:

Mumio said:

These days, I'm not sure what the fans are thinking. It's constant bitching about every single thing that's been done or going to be done, complaining about music that's going to be released along with promises and threats to not support Bremer/Londell/the estate/the family/Graceland Holdings/PP and so on and so forth. The way things are going, there will be nothing left standing. Then people will REALLY have something to bitch about...and they have no one to blame but themselves. The lack of support for Prince's legacy and what must be done to keep it alive and make it thrive among fans is just appalling. I can't believe the things people say shake

[Edited 10/21/16 15:24pm]

Doesn't help when you have people like Funkenberry joining in. And then of course the conspiracy theorists who think WB murdered Prince and everything being done is just to enrich the suits and his family.


^ Funkenberry has been very cool.

A 40 track CD isn't going to be cheap. Fans are being asked to eat a double album of recycled songs for one bonus track. It's a cash grab. That isn't respecting his legacy, or his fans.


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Reply #13 posted 10/21/16 7:26pm

roxy831

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Noodled24 said:

AnnaStesia91 said:

WE all know that Prince was one of the greatest musicians to ever walk the Earth and WE know how much of a genius he was, but I'm starting to think because our perspective as fans is SO different than the general public, sometimes we can't see the bigger picture especially from a financial standpoint. We as fans will never lose interest in Prince but if this train is gonna keep moving we are gonna have to put up with some hits collections and some practical type releases.


Yeah, I just don't see how this is at all practical? 6 months ago there was a feeding frenzy on Prince albums, mainly the hits collections... if joe public bought a hits collection 6 months ago, are they ready for another one 6 months later, comprising 50% songs they bought earlier in the year?

If it doesn't sell huge numbers, where does that leave future releases?

I don't see what they'd loose by skipping Prince4Ever and going directly to the PR Remaster.

[Edited 10/21/16 15:44pm]

I'm in agreement Noodled. Let's be creative....Use songs for soundtracks in movies, MAYBE a television show here and there. Get the music where people ARE.... We gotta think outside the box.

Welcome home class. We've come a long way. - RIP Prince
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Reply #14 posted 10/22/16 12:34am

PeteSilas

i don't think so, i don't think we'll ever be here to know, it'll be way off in the future where he will be put into perspective. I think he knew that, every artist thinks of it. Elvis used to worry that no one would remember him, he felt he never really made a good movie and that maybe the 50's music was just kids music.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #15 posted 10/22/16 7:20am

databank

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Honestly I fail to see why everything in the vault can't be made available over time.

Of course there won't be a 50 CD's boxset of rehearsals and soundchecks.

But this is 2016: digital is an option.

Physical releases should focus on the most high profile, profitable releases. Your occasional greatest hits package or thematic compilation, remaster of the most popula albums with bonus material, a few live DVD's here and there, and the occasional high profile unreleased album or outtakes collection, with accessible and "finished" outtakes.

The rest could simply be put out online, with maybe the possibility of limited or on-demand physical releases.

While even releasing material online does require some workforce (the material still needs to be -at least roughly- mixed and mastered, then uploaded or sent to various online services) and therefore does involve some costs, it is negligible compared to the costs or printing, distributing and promoting a CD with artwork, liner notes and all.

Of course, flooding iTunes and Amazon with 250 releases may be a bad move, though: it is possible the estate will want casual listeners to find Purple Rain, The Hits or Diamonds And Pearls without having to face a ridiculously long list of rehearsals, soundchecks, live shows and outtakes collection in the iTunes store.

But there is always the possibility of a very simple online store on a very simple website. I mean they gonna have to have an official website at some point, won't they (most deceased rock stars have one)? I do not believe hiring a specialist to select the tapes, an engineer to clean them and a webmaster to put them online once a month or so would cost more than the money generated by the sales. An alternative service such as Bandcamp or the Tidal store could also successfully be used. Bandcamp is a truly wonderful platform for alternative music if you ask me.

I could be wrong though: in a tweet last year Prince suggested that running an online store was too much hassle for too little profit. But Prince was often picky. I believe a very simple tool can be designed and kept alive without that much effort or cost.

Of course some people will come and tell me that anything that sales less than 1 million copies is a flop and will be a no-go.

I'd like to remind those people that about 95% of the records released on professional labels nowadays sell less than 50,000 copies. And still they get released, physically even. And still the labels and artists keep going. I'd like to remind them that people like John Zorn or Buckethead manage to release, respectively, about an album every 3 month and about an album a week (!), even though their audience is very much a niche by comparison to Prince's. I'd like to remind them that obscure 80's albums by acts such as André Cymone or Wendy & Lisa have been rereleased those last few years, even though it's unlikely they sold more than 10,000 copies or so each. If there's a market for a record of noisy guitar and drum machine loops recorded in his bedroom by Buckethead every goddamn week, if there's a market for a reissue of André Cymone's Living In The New Wave (a wonderful album, but one that went completely unnoticed even at the time of its original release), I do believe there is a market for a Prince online store.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #16 posted 10/22/16 7:39am

gandorb

roxy831 said:



Noodled24 said:




AnnaStesia91 said:


WE all know that Prince was one of the greatest musicians to ever walk the Earth and WE know how much of a genius he was, but I'm starting to think because our perspective as fans is SO different than the general public, sometimes we can't see the bigger picture especially from a financial standpoint. We as fans will never lose interest in Prince but if this train is gonna keep moving we are gonna have to put up with some hits collections and some practical type releases.


Yeah, I just don't see how this is at all practical? 6 months ago there was a feeding frenzy on Prince albums, mainly the hits collections... if joe public bought a hits collection 6 months ago, are they ready for another one 6 months later, comprising 50% songs they bought earlier in the year?

If it doesn't sell huge numbers, where does that leave future releases?

I don't see what they'd loose by skipping Prince4Ever and going directly to the PR Remaster.


[Edited 10/21/16 15:44pm]



I'm in agreement Noodled. Let's be creative....Use songs for soundtracks in movies, MAYBE a television show here and there. Get the music where people ARE.... We gotta think outside the box.



While I too would like to see more creativity, the new hits is marketed to the Christmas shopper who remembered that their Aunt Stella used to like Prince And they see the new release at the checkout at Target. For even Joe Blow who has the Very Best of Prince, there are 24 new songs for him here. For us, virtually nothing but there may well be on the PR Deluxe release.
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Reply #17 posted 10/22/16 7:51am

jdcxc

AnnaStesia91 said:

WE all know that Prince was one of the greatest musicians to ever walk the Earth and WE know how much of a genius he was, but I'm starting to think because our perspective as fans is SO different than the general public, sometimes we can't see the bigger picture especially from a financial standpoint. We as fans will never lose interest in Prince but if this train is gonna keep moving we are gonna have to put up with some hits collections and some practical type releases.


I disagree. His rich entire complete catalog and the hundreds of chestnuts in the vault, if marketed creatively, would continue to enhance his legacy. There has never been another dead artist with this potential, so comparisons are out of the book.

The short term payoff of the over saturated and exploited Hits is not a long range strategy. Plus it ignores his core fanbase, which will be buying Prince product forever.
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Reply #18 posted 10/22/16 7:59am

NorthC

The difference between Prince's heirs and acts like Buckethead and John Zorn is that the latter don't have a multi million dollar recording studio/property to run. So if Paisley Park wants to stay profitable, it needs more than an online shop. Or a few box sets. They might make more money from tourists than from records. While I agree with databank that putting rehearsals and such online is a good idea, if even Prince himself thought it was too much trouble, then I don't really see his sister putting her heart and soul into it either. I'm not going to join the people here who are bashing Tyka, because she obviously has a lot to deal with. Losing a family member is bad enough without the responsibility of dealing with an estate that's worh millions.
[Edited 10/22/16 8:00am]
[Edited 10/22/16 8:00am]
Don't ever lose your dreams.
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Reply #19 posted 10/22/16 8:33am

databank

avatar

NorthC said:

The difference between Prince's heirs and acts like Buckethead and John Zorn is that the latter don't have a multi million dollar recording studio/property to run. So if Paisley Park wants to stay profitable, it needs more than an online shop. Or a few box sets. They might make more money from tourists than from records. While I agree with databank that putting rehearsals and such online is a good idea, if even Prince himself thought it was too much trouble, then I don't really see his sister putting her heart and soul into it either. I'm not going to join the people here who are bashing Tyka, because she obviously has a lot to deal with. Losing a family member is bad enough without the responsibility of dealing with an estate that's worh millions. [Edited 10/22/16 8:00am] [Edited 10/22/16 8:00am]

Prince's siblings don't have to run Paisley Park. They can sell it. They don't live and record in it. If it doesn't cover its own expenses it certainly doesn't belong to record sales money to be wasted in an unprofitable museum venture. On the other hand it can at long last make money by being rented as a recording studio or concert venue, which wasn't the case for all those years when it was P's private studio and home. But record sales are not for Paisley Park, that would be an utter absurdity.

.

Prince had enormous costs for not only PP being his private place, but for keeping his staff on the payroll (which includes those people doing everything for him: chefs, maids, assistants, hairdressers, accountants, lawyers, fashion designers, security guards, drivers, communication manager, gardener, etc. + of course the engineers and musicians, and the whole staff needed on tour, graphic designers, photographers, filmmakers, etc.). Can you imagine how many people made a living off him?

Then he had to rent top of the game recording studios here and there, to keep recording when he wasn't at home.

Then he had to pay for the top of the game jewelry, perfumes, fabric for his tailored clothes, cars, private jets for travelling, 5 star hotel suites, best restaurants in town, and the occasional eccentricity such as having a piano flowed over by plane for a single concert, or lifted up to his suite at the top floor, through the window (both things happened, I ain't shitting you!), etc.

Then he had to pay all the costs associated to his various assets, mostly luxury houses I guess, which you need to pay local taxes for, and a staff to maintain them clean, and the occasional repairs.

Then he had to pay his income taxes.

.

My uncle used to work in high fashion and hang out with multimillionaires in the 70's and 80's. He explained to me that those people just end-up spending unimaginable amount of money on staff AND buying things and services, amounts you wouldn't even imagine yourself being able to spend given the opportunity.

.

Prince's siblings won't have to have a 30 people staff living around them to fulfill their every need. They don't need to keep those houses. They don't need to travel in private jets. They don't need security guards. They probably wouldn't think of spending one million dollar on a ring or necklace. They can drive their own cars and it doesn't have to be a Porsche. They can sleep in 3 star hotels. They don't need a chef to cook each of their meal. They still remember how to use an iron or a vacuum cleaner. Of course they'll want to make as much money as can be made. But the bottom line is Buckethead and Zorn do make some profit with their albums. Heck, Zorn even runs a label of experimental niche music and it's a successful label. A profitable one. The bottom line is Prince's heirs don't have the same needs as he did. All 8 or 10 of them (I forgot how many they are) together don't need to spend as much money in a month as he did on a single day. Running an online store may not make them rich, but as long as it's profitable, i.e. some additional income can come out of it, it's worth a shot.

.

Now other deceased acts don't do that, i'll agree. But I'm not sure any has such a huge vault of material to pick up things from. They'll have some recordings from each tour. Same setlist each. No aftershows. Rehearsals weren't recorded, neither were soundchecks. Few shows were professionally filmed. And of course they don't have hundreds over hundreds of studio recordings either. So their estate has to save the golden hen, release things carefully, one at the time, make it last. With Prince you can release an album's worth of material a month for 50 years, easy.

.

Now I'm no exec from a label, I'm no expert at handling an estate either. Maybe I got it all wrong. But if money's the purpose, I totally fail to see how keeping things to rot in the vault could be more profitable than releasing them.

[Edited 10/22/16 8:34am]

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #20 posted 10/22/16 9:15am

Noodled24

They decided to keep Prince's Chef on the payroll so he could create a "food experience" But creating an online store is an expense they can't bear?

Honestly an online store can be thrown together in a matter of days. It doesn't need bells and whistles... it can be updated over time and allows them to keep a database of fans so they know who their customers are.

The first album released after his passing should be based on more than "Well it was the hits that sold when he died so let's do another one of them". In my opinion. If they have the PR Remaster ready to go, it should come first... while they work out how they're going to get some of the later work onto a hits set.

[Edited 10/22/16 9:32am]

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Reply #21 posted 10/22/16 9:58am

jdcxc

They're marketing to the lowest common denominator, instead of a long range plan for a true artist. Just like a lot of fans on this site, I do not need a new repackaging of the Hits, but would spend hundreds on "new" material.

Graceland, Elvis, Vegas, nostalgia...make me sick. The family should look to Hendrix, Miles, Warhol, Basquiat.
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Reply #22 posted 10/22/16 9:58am

Purplestar88

I actually think people underestimate Prince's markeketability because their too busy camparing him MJ, Bowie, Madonna, Elvis, or whomever. Prince could have played the popularity game when he was alive but he choose not to. I believe he could have had his own reality show of some kind, and he could had been a judge of thse music/fashion/ cooking reality show that are very popular now. I bet if he called and said can I quest star or can you create role for me for the show Emipe they would most likely make it happen.

Go on ebay, etsy, amazon,etc and see how many unauthorized Prince items are there. So their is a good strong market for him. I said on a another thread if Selena can have an successful sales, a museum, merchandise, and fesvial and had a very short career compare Prince, I think Prince have the same success.

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Reply #23 posted 10/22/16 12:09pm

AnnaStesia91

What I'm saying is we are 6 months in. You can't expect everything at once. Who knows what the next 5, 10, 15 years hold. They can't just oversaturate and throw everything out there. We will get what we want litte by little.
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Reply #24 posted 10/22/16 12:11pm

AnnaStesia91

And Funkenberry is annoying as shit to me to whoever said he was cool. I think he's over dramatic and tries to make so much about him and his feelings. Him and Prince were friendly but he acts like he speaks for all fans or something and it's annoying. Just my 2 cents on him.
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Reply #25 posted 10/22/16 1:35pm

MysticalChick

AnnaStesia91 said:

And Funkenberry is annoying as shit to me to whoever said he was cool. I think he's over dramatic and tries to make so much about him and his feelings. Him and Prince were friendly but he acts like he speaks for all fans or something and it's annoying. Just my 2 cents on him.



Yes, I agree. I don't know him well but started listening to his podcasts recently. Aside from the fact that he's clearly not a natural broadcaster, I can't tell if his stories are real or in his head or a blend of both. He makes it sound like he was BFFs with P but also an outsider who just wanted to help. I'm boggled by him.

"So this is where U end, and U and I begin ..."

Thanks for being my mystical unicorn.
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Reply #26 posted 10/22/16 6:35pm

Noodled24

MysticalChick said:

AnnaStesia91 said:

And Funkenberry is annoying as shit to me to whoever said he was cool. I think he's over dramatic and tries to make so much about him and his feelings. Him and Prince were friendly but he acts like he speaks for all fans or something and it's annoying. Just my 2 cents on him.

Yes, I agree. I don't know him well but started listening to his podcasts recently. Aside from the fact that he's clearly not a natural broadcaster, I can't tell if his stories are real or in his head or a blend of both. He makes it sound like he was BFFs with P but also an outsider who just wanted to help. I'm boggled by him.


Well, he's obviously not making it up is he? He was Prince's mouthpiece for a long time. Prince released music via his website, and he's interviewed people from the Prince camp. I'm not sure why you wouldn't know that already?

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Reply #27 posted 10/22/16 7:39pm

AnnaStesia91

Noodled24 said:



MysticalChick said:




AnnaStesia91 said:


And Funkenberry is annoying as shit to me to whoever said he was cool. I think he's over dramatic and tries to make so much about him and his feelings. Him and Prince were friendly but he acts like he speaks for all fans or something and it's annoying. Just my 2 cents on him.


Yes, I agree. I don't know him well but started listening to his podcasts recently. Aside from the fact that he's clearly not a natural broadcaster, I can't tell if his stories are real or in his head or a blend of both. He makes it sound like he was BFFs with P but also an outsider who just wanted to help. I'm boggled by him.




Well, he's obviously not making it up is he? He was Prince's mouthpiece for a long time. Prince released music via his website, and he's interviewed people from the Prince camp. I'm not sure why you wouldn't know that already?


From everything I've seen him and P were friendly but it was more business than anything. He was a fanboy that caught a come up by making himself seen and heard. But he acts like him and P sat and played pattycake and talked on the phone at 4am which I doubt lol I've always thought he was dramatic and over exaggerated their connection and I ain't the only one.
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Reply #28 posted 10/22/16 7:49pm

Noodled24

^ You sound jellous and ill informed.

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Reply #29 posted 10/22/16 8:09pm

AnnaStesia91

Noodled24 said:

^ You sound jellous and ill informed.



He annoys me. I'm not the only one who has said what I said but ok.
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Forums > Prince: Music and More > Do fans view Prince's legacy unrealistically, therefore have unrealistic expectations...