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Thread started 09/09/17 9:42am

Asenath0607

Auction Question or perspective

In the wake of the natural disasters that many around the world have experienced these last couple of weeks, posting on the org seems a bit trivial, but here I am. So first off, sending prayers, good vibes (and yes donations to organizations) to those affected by the elements.

Just wondering if someone can give me another point of view regarding items being auctioned on the RR auction site? I know it’s my opinion and that other than me, no one cares; but I am just having a hard time understanding why people feel it is ok to make a living off of Prince.

I am thinking that if you loved or respected Prince at one time, why you can’t honor his legacy by donating certain items/ documents to his estate for inclusion into the Paisley Park Museum; vs trying to make money off of these items? I understand the position that, “why give it to the estate for his heirs to get rich?”; but are the heirs really going to get rich off of PP admissions? Once you gift items such as his handwritten movie scripts, handwritten song lyrics, handwritten essay notes for the LoveSexy tour book, his notebooks; (since Prince was a philanthropist) you could stipulate that a portion of the proceeds from each admission go to an organization which funds musical programs for students without such programs. I know everyone needs to have money, but is this the only means people have of making a living? It just seems wrong to me regarding the selling of certain items.

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Reply #1 posted 09/09/17 9:57am

langebleu

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I don't consider it's dishonourable to sell something that you own.

(And, for all anyone knows, the seller may use some or all of the proceeds for a philanthropic purpose).

ALT+PLS+RTN: Pure as a pane of ice. It's a gift.
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Reply #2 posted 09/09/17 1:41pm

Asenath0607

langebleu said:

I don't consider it's dishonourable to sell something that you own.

(And, for all anyone knows, the seller may use some or all of the proceeds for a philanthropic purpose).

I agree with that 100%, but just because it's in your possession doesn't really make you the owner. If it was given to you fine, if it was written to you fine; but if you came by it in the capacity of your duties/employment/ and you decide to keep it knowing it wasn't meant for you to keep, does it really make you the owner? If two people are cohabitating and upon breaking up one packs something that belongs to the other person, they may have possession, but does it really belong to them?

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Reply #3 posted 09/09/17 3:00pm

langebleu

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moderator

Asenath0607 said:

langebleu said:

I don't consider it's dishonourable to sell something that you own.

(And, for all anyone knows, the seller may use some or all of the proceeds for a philanthropic purpose).

I agree with that 100%, but just because it's in your possession doesn't really make you the owner.


Yes, we agree. If you have legal title to sell property, you own it. If you don't, an auction house is handling stolen goods. The auction is reasonably publicised and the Estate can seek to take appropriate action if it consider title to the property has not transferred.

ALT+PLS+RTN: Pure as a pane of ice. It's a gift.
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Reply #4 posted 09/09/17 3:26pm

lemoncrush19

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^^^ I guess asenath was thinking of a moral ownership rather than the legal one.

well only my humble opinion of course (while I personally wouldn't sell any of those items if I was lucky enough to have it):

1. who are we to judge?
2. all those people made a living out of his knowledge, talent, fame, wealth etc. while he was alive in one or the other way and he apparently was ok with that or even invited them to do so ... so back to 1. who are we to judge?
the only love there is is the love we make heart
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Reply #5 posted 09/09/17 4:34pm

PennyPurple

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People are having hard times right now. I don't blame them for selling those items and for all we know, they may have lots of other things that mean more to them, that they aren't getting rid of.


The Estate/Paisley Park, have sooo many things of Princes. I can't remember if it was 2000+ pair of shoes, or 2000+ outfits, and that's just the tip of it.

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Reply #6 posted 09/09/17 7:04pm

laurarichardso
n

Asenath0607 said:

In the wake of the natural disasters that many around the world have experienced these last couple of weeks, posting on the org seems a bit trivial, but here I am. So first off, sending prayers, good vibes (and yes donations to organizations) to those affected by the elements.


Just wondering if someone can give me another point of view regarding items being auctioned on the RR auction site? I know it’s my opinion and that other than me, no one cares; but I am just having a hard time understanding why people feel it is ok to make a living off of Prince.


I am thinking that if you loved or respected Prince at one time, why you can’t honor his legacy by donating certain items/ documents to his estate for inclusion into the Paisley Park Museum; vs trying to make money off of these items? I understand the position that, “why give it to the estate for his heirs to get rich?”; but are the heirs really going to get rich off of PP admissions? Once you gift items such as his handwritten movie scripts, handwritten song lyrics, handwritten essay notes for the LoveSexy tour book, his notebooks; (since Prince was a philanthropist) you could stipulate that a portion of the proceeds from each admission go to an organization which funds musical programs for students without such programs. I know everyone needs to have money, but is this the only means people have of making a living? It just seems wrong to me regarding the selling of certain items.



Because they really are living vicariously through Prince. Take a good look at the Purple Jock riders and how very little they have accomplished in their professional careers. Just because you can do something does not mean it is not tacky.
[Edited 9/9/17 19:05pm]
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Reply #7 posted 09/11/17 10:51am

coldasice

Asenath0607 said:

In the wake of the natural disasters that many around the world have experienced these last couple of weeks, posting on the org seems a bit trivial, but here I am. So first off, sending prayers, good vibes (and yes donations to organizations) to those affected by the elements.


Just wondering if someone can give me another point of view regarding items being auctioned on the RR auction site? I know it’s my opinion and that other than me, no one cares; but I am just having a hard time understanding why people feel it is ok to make a living off of Prince.


I am thinking that if you loved or respected Prince at one time, why you can’t honor his legacy by donating certain items/ documents to his estate for inclusion into the Paisley Park Museum; vs trying to make money off of these items? I understand the position that, “why give it to the estate for his heirs to get rich?”; but are the heirs really going to get rich off of PP admissions? Once you gift items such as his handwritten movie scripts, handwritten song lyrics, handwritten essay notes for the LoveSexy tour book, his notebooks; (since Prince was a philanthropist) you could stipulate that a portion of the proceeds from each admission go to an organization which funds musical programs for students without such programs. I know everyone needs to have money, but is this the only means people have of making a living? It just seems wrong to me regarding the selling of certain items.



You are very naive if you think anybody is getting rich off PP admissions. Even without the taxes the estate will have to pay on the property, it would cost tons just to maintain. Shit Prince couldn't even maintain the AC when he was alive. It was always hot as F*** in there
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Reply #8 posted 09/11/17 12:20pm

crimesofparis

No one is getting rich off Paisley Park admissions. No one is getting rich off of these auctions. And we don't know what anyone is doing with any of this money.

The estate is at no loss for things to display at PP, or to send to other museums, exhibits, etc. And I'm sure those auctioning off things have no shortage of other, more closely-held items that remind them of Prince.

This is all just stuff. It isn't all important. It can't all be displayed or used. There's an article where the rocknroll hall of fame talks about how they are sent more stuff than they could ever display.

So what do you want these folks to do with the stuff they're auctioning off? Since curious here. The estate might not even want that stuff.
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Reply #9 posted 09/12/17 4:51am

laurarichardso
n

crimesofparis said:

No one is getting rich off Paisley Park admissions. No one is getting rich off of these auctions. And we don't know what anyone is doing with any of this money. The estate is at no loss for things to display at PP, or to send to other museums, exhibits, etc. And I'm sure those auctioning off things have no shortage of other, more closely-held items that remind them of Prince. This is all just stuff. It isn't all important. It can't all be displayed or used. There's an article where the rocknroll hall of fame talks about how they are sent more stuff than they could ever display. So what do you want these folks to do with the stuff they're auctioning off? Since curious here. The estate might not even want that stuff.

We do not know if anyone offered any thing to the museum or Prince's family so we really can't say.

The money for PP admissions goes back into the upkeep of the building so the Graceland people have said which sounds believable to me.

As far the auctions are concerned it is besides the point if anyone is getting rich the point is they are in some cases selling absolute junk and trash which makes the sellers look pathetic.

I think when you sell some old grimy leg warmers from 30 years ago and an old check book you look despearate for money.

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Reply #10 posted 09/12/17 8:50pm

mediumdry

Most of the items in the auction are more interesting to me than pretty much all of the trinkets shown in programs like the antiques roadshow (and other programs like it). What is valuable to one person is not to others.

.

These are items that have some historical value and a personal value. There are people that want to buy it. Why have a problem with it?

.

It's no better (or worse) than sales of kitsch porcelain or dirty socks, and there's a market for those things too.

.

Any legal owner is entitled to do with their stuff whatever they want, for whatever reason. If they want to get some money in exchange for clearing their storage lockers, more power to them. If you want to judge them for it, go right ahead, but in this case I won't.

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Reply #11 posted 09/13/17 3:53am

laurarichardso
n

mediumdry said:

Most of the items in the auction are more interesting to me than pretty much all of the trinkets shown in programs like the antiques roadshow (and other programs like it). What is valuable to one person is not to others.

.

These are items that have some historical value and a personal value. There are people that want to buy it. Why have a problem with it?

.

It's no better (or worse) than sales of kitsch porcelain or dirty socks, and there's a market for those things too.

.

Any legal owner is entitled to do with their stuff whatever they want, for whatever reason. If they want to get some money in exchange for clearing their storage lockers, more power to them. If you want to judge them for it, go right ahead, but in this case I won't.

Because you can do something does not mean you should. I seriously doubt anyone is going to pay $7500.00 for thrity year old leg warmers.

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Reply #12 posted 09/13/17 6:55am

PennyPurple

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laurarichardson said:

Because you can do something does not mean you should. I seriously doubt anyone is going to pay $7500.00 for thrity year old leg warmers.

And because you should do something, doesn't mean you do.


It's their stuff, they can do with what they want.

The thing I question is about some of the items and how they were obtained. If there are checks for sale, I'm sure P didn't give someone his check book............but what ever floats their boat. I think we all know that some of those items were swiped, such as the checkbook and letter from Bono, amoung other things.

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Reply #13 posted 09/13/17 7:15am

crimesofparis

PennyPurple said:



laurarichardson said:






Because you can do something does not mean you should. I seriously doubt anyone is going to pay $7500.00 for thrity year old leg warmers.



And because you should do something, doesn't mean you do.



It's their stuff, they can do with what they want.

The thing I question is about some of the items and how they were obtained. If there are checks for sale, I'm sure P didn't give someone his check book.....but what ever floats their boat. I think we all know that some of those items were swiped, such as the checkbook and letter from Bono, amoung other things.


The checkbook is odd. The letter could have been a gift.

There are also laws that say when you throw something in the trash, it isn't theft if someone snags it.

I watched a video of someone who sold an early script / notebook at auction. He obtained it when working for Prince when he was told to throw it away. He kept it instead. Prince threatened legal action and then decided against it after the guy explained how he got it.

Shitty but legal.
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Reply #14 posted 09/13/17 9:20am

laurarichardso
n

PennyPurple said:

laurarichardson said:

Because you can do something does not mean you should. I seriously doubt anyone is going to pay $7500.00 for thrity year old leg warmers.

And because you should do something, doesn't mean you do.


It's their stuff, they can do with what they want.

The thing I question is about some of the items and how they were obtained. If there are checks for sale, I'm sure P didn't give someone his check book............but what ever floats their boat. I think we all know that some of those items were swiped, such as the checkbook and letter from Bono, amoung other things.

I never said they do not have a right to sell this stuff it is just tacky and classless.

Of course P did not give anyone his checkbook. He even said people stole stuff from him all the time but who in the world would think some moron would steal and old check book or a scrape of paper.

People accused him of being paranoid when he had rats working for him.

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Reply #15 posted 09/13/17 9:22am

laurarichardso
n

crimesofparis said:

PennyPurple said:

And because you should do something, doesn't mean you do.


It's their stuff, they can do with what they want.

The thing I question is about some of the items and how they were obtained. If there are checks for sale, I'm sure P didn't give someone his check book............but what ever floats their boat. I think we all know that some of those items were swiped, such as the checkbook and letter from Bono, amoung other things.

The checkbook is odd. The letter could have been a gift. There are also laws that say when you throw something in the trash, it isn't theft if someone snags it. I watched a video of someone who sold an early script / notebook at auction. He obtained it when working for Prince when he was told to throw it away. He kept it instead. Prince threatened legal action and then decided against it after the guy explained how he got it. Shitty but legal.

I thought they guy said he returned it after he was contacted by an attorney. If the script was copyrighted material he would have to return it.

Remember the engineer who did a podcast about going in Prince's house in L.A. and drinking his liquor, swimming in his pool, and going thru P's closets.

He had some shit bags working for him.

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Reply #16 posted 09/13/17 10:05am

crimesofparis

laurarichardson said:



crimesofparis said:


PennyPurple said:


And because you should do something, doesn't mean you do.



It's their stuff, they can do with what they want.

The thing I question is about some of the items and how they were obtained. If there are checks for sale, I'm sure P didn't give someone his check book.....but what ever floats their boat. I think we all know that some of those items were swiped, such as the checkbook and letter from Bono, amoung other things.



The checkbook is odd. The letter could have been a gift. There are also laws that say when you throw something in the trash, it isn't theft if someone snags it. I watched a video of someone who sold an early script / notebook at auction. He obtained it when working for Prince when he was told to throw it away. He kept it instead. Prince threatened legal action and then decided against it after the guy explained how he got it. Shitty but legal.

I thought they guy said he returned it after he was contacted by an attorney. If the script was copyrighted material he would have to return it.



Remember the engineer who did a podcast about going in Prince's house in L.A. and drinking his liquor, swimming in his pool, and going thru P's closets.



He had some shit bags working for him.


It was a notebook with graffiti bridge notes in it. Not illegal to sell a script.

Pretty sure he auctioned it for less than he expected and bought a synth with it.
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Reply #17 posted 09/13/17 11:25am

laurarichardso
n

crimesofparis said:

laurarichardson said:

I thought they guy said he returned it after he was contacted by an attorney. If the script was copyrighted material he would have to return it.

Remember the engineer who did a podcast about going in Prince's house in L.A. and drinking his liquor, swimming in his pool, and going thru P's closets.

He had some shit bags working for him.

It was a notebook with graffiti bridge notes in it. Not illegal to sell a script. Pretty sure he auctioned it for less than he expected and bought a synth with it.

I thought he said in his Youtube video he gave it back unless we are talking about two different people.

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Reply #18 posted 09/13/17 11:45am

crimesofparis

laurarichardson said:



crimesofparis said:


laurarichardson said:


I thought they guy said he returned it after he was contacted by an attorney. If the script was copyrighted material he would have to return it.



Remember the engineer who did a podcast about going in Prince's house in L.A. and drinking his liquor, swimming in his pool, and going thru P's closets.



He had some shit bags working for him.



It was a notebook with graffiti bridge notes in it. Not illegal to sell a script. Pretty sure he auctioned it for less than he expected and bought a synth with it.

I thought he said in his Youtube video he gave it back unless we are talking about two different people.


We might be. I watched this over a year ago. Don't remember which exact one it was but it was too long of a video for me to want to rewatch.
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Reply #19 posted 09/13/17 11:51am

laurarichardso
n

crimesofparis said:

laurarichardson said:

I thought he said in his Youtube video he gave it back unless we are talking about two different people.

We might be. I watched this over a year ago. Don't remember which exact one it was but it was too long of a video for me to want to rewatch.

I think we are talking about the same dude and yes he was too long winded with his story.

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Reply #20 posted 09/13/17 12:09pm

deerpath

I think one issue is PP is not set up as a not for profit, is it? If it isn't, anything "donated" would not be tax deductible. And as someone mentioned, donating anything to even a non profit museum is a process.

Many treasures are in private collections and in time because we all die, risk ending up in auction houses, like say Christie's. Sometimes a gracious buyer will then give the item to the most prestigious non profit museum. When a museum accepts a donation they are responsible for its preservation and costs associated with it.

Think of the dollars Kim Berry could be making if she'd saved combings of Prince's hair!

Donating anything to a museum is generally costly --and there is usually a clause that says the museum can sell the donation to raise dollars. Even if it was accepted, there is no assurance it will stay in the collection UNLESS there is a significant endowment to sustain the preservation of it over time. When the endowment is gone...

Prince mentioned in interviews that people were always taking his stuff. He shrugged when he said it (he was talking about his first guitar). It seems the stuff wasn't his treasure. The past wasn't his treasure. He was focused on the next song, performance, venture. His music and ability to create what he must --that was his treasure. That is his legacy and what needs to be preserved.

"Hold on to your souls y'all. We got a long way to go. Thank you! We love y'all!"
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Reply #21 posted 09/13/17 2:50pm

Mumio

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deerpath said:

I think one issue is PP is not set up as a not for profit, is it? If it isn't, anything "donated" would not be tax deductible. And as someone mentioned, donating anything to even a non profit museum is a process.

Many treasures are in private collections and in time because we all die, risk ending up in auction houses, like say Christie's. Sometimes a gracious buyer will then give the item to the most prestigious non profit museum. When a museum accepts a donation they are responsible for its preservation and costs associated with it.

Think of the dollars Kim Berry could be making if she'd saved combings of Prince's hair!

Donating anything to a museum is generally costly --and there is usually a clause that says the museum can sell the donation to raise dollars. Even if it was accepted, there is no assurance it will stay in the collection UNLESS there is a significant endowment to sustain the preservation of it over time. When the endowment is gone...

Prince mentioned in interviews that people were always taking his stuff. He shrugged when he said it (he was talking about his first guitar). It seems the stuff wasn't his treasure. The past wasn't his treasure. He was focused on the next song, performance, venture. His music and ability to create what he must --that was his treasure. That is his legacy and what needs to be preserved.



Agreed.


Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
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Reply #22 posted 09/13/17 6:46pm

laurarichardso
n

deerpath said:

I think one issue is PP is not set up as a not for profit, is it? If it isn't, anything "donated" would not be tax deductible. And as someone mentioned, donating anything to even a non profit museum is a process.



Many treasures are in private collections and in time because we all die, risk ending up in auction houses, like say Christie's. Sometimes a gracious buyer will then give the item to the most prestigious non profit museum. When a museum accepts a donation they are responsible for its preservation and costs associated with it.



Think of the dollars Kim Berry could be making if she'd saved combings of Prince's hair!



Donating anything to a museum is generally costly --and there is usually a clause that says the museum can sell the donation to raise dollars. Even if it was accepted, there is no assurance it will stay in the collection UNLESS there is a significant endowment to sustain the preservation of it over time. When the endowment is gone...



Prince mentioned in interviews that people were always taking his stuff. He shrugged when he said it (he was talking about his first guitar). It seems the stuff wasn't his treasure. The past wasn't his treasure. He was focused on the next song, performance, venture. His music and ability to create what he must --that was his treasure. That is his legacy and what needs to be preserved.



So basically people should be allowed to steal? You know he actually went out and brougt or stopped some of his stuff from being auctioned off so I doubt he was good with in. The whole the museum is for profit as an excuse for not donating is absolute bull.
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Reply #23 posted 09/16/17 8:11pm

Asenath0607

Yeah, I'm not talking about leg warmers and trinkets, I'm talking about his handwritten movie scripts and his essay for the LoveSexy LP; no way those should not be a part of the PP exhibits or in his estate's possession. But whatever folks tell themselves so that they can sleep at night, and live with themselves during the day is on them. Thanks for your perspectives, I still find it appalling and rather f'ed up.
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