independent and unofficial
Prince fan community site
Sat 23rd Jun 2018 9:11am
Welcome! Sign up or enter username and password to remember me
Forum jump
Forums > Prince: Music and More > What were Prince’s weaknesses production-wise?
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Page 4 of 5 <12345>
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Reply #90 posted 03/12/18 1:27pm

PeteSilas

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

PeteSilas said:

what could alan have done better, he knew the business well enough that's for sure. Prince wasn't eaqsy to manage for anyone even when he was 100 percent right, demanding a motion picture or firing people after selling a couple million albums is pretty unrealistic but he was right that time, still that is unreasonable as hell.

Well it goes to the heart of the matter that Prince hired green engineers, musicians, singers/protégés and through sheer immense talent of himself make it work. But that was also the case with Alan running a record label and a studio. This was one instance where his sheer talent wasn’t going to co er it and he needed professional help instead of someone at hand. The whole thing fell apart under Alan. It all just collapsed. Sure that’s not on Alan per se, but absolutely not fit for the task at hand.

i don't know much about the demise of PP but my theory was that prince shot himself in the foot by not wanting anyone like the Time ever again who would be able to challenge his musical supremacy. He was known to hold people like Rosie Gaines back, he apparently sabotaged Ingrid Chavez' album because he was intimidated by it. I never heard it so i wouldn't know if he'd have anything to fear or not.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #91 posted 03/13/18 12:04am

Vannormal

avatar

Remove all over-produced music by Prince out of his body of work, and you still have a thousand-or-two well produced great written songs, i'm pretty sure.

-

From what i've heard and read from other artists... some live by the fact that they weren't allowed to record released albums the way they wanted it sound to their full and final ideas.

Because of record labels involvements, producers involvements, etc. Sometimes that kind of protection and involvement was in a good way, mostly in a bad way.

-

David Sylvian (as an example agian) once stated in an interview, that his most beloved album by the crowd, fans, critics, is an album that he felt he didn't have enough time to finalise it the way he wanted it to sound.

Still I think that particular album (and i'm not alone) is his all time best and cohesive LP (Secrets Of The Beehive, and I believe i've read that also about his first solo effort; Brilliant Trees, which is also a stunning LP, go check it out. Timeless still).

-

I somehow understood Prince's longing to be free. That may've caused some over-production to many for his work to come, but he did it the way he really wanted.

I have no opinion on which way of working is best, but I do respect Prince's choice to do it his way.

Although I thought otherwise in the late nineties, now i'm older. wink

-

There were some record representatives that really cared for the music and the artist. And did well in overlooking the making of a final product. They had the ability to stand at the side line and see it all from a distance somehow, watching things grow, stear the wheel a bit where needed.

(But most of 'm were sharks, only thinking about profits).

A free artist is vulnurable in being free to fuck things up on any level, once he has money.

One can argue about it if it led to a better creative work or not.

-

I prefer artists who are able to be free and create good and less good stuff. (They basically all do)

I hate it when it sounds forced and hunted, adjusted for the masses, a squeezed work into a cramped plastic sounding vacuum (most last body of work by big artist in general tends to go in that direction) - which sounds basically always over-produced.

-

Maybe that's why I don't like most contemporary music.

People don't experiment anymore. They have songs written by others, imagery and dance moves being created and video's being shot right before the even have a first album released. It looks and sounds smooth, and that about it. Smooth.

Some (Indie) bands and artists will always be there in that huge pool of underground. away from plastic tits and whitened teeth. That's where my heart is. Right there with the try and fail, and then again up and learn.

-

I've never been a big fam of Calvin Harris.

But his last album (from 2017) is just great. Although it containes plastic tits and artificial teeth sort to speak, but he kind of realised what it is to write good songs, and create some great tunes, production wise. So there's some hope (for me). wink

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #92 posted 03/13/18 2:19am

ian

avatar

Personally I think you could improve significantly any of Prince's studio material by simply isolating and mixing the instrumental and vocal performances, and stripping out all the sound effects library shit, the studio technique . For such an accomplished musician who surrounded himself with amazing players, it is odd to note how rarely he felt he could just trust the music to stand on its own two feet. Man, just mic up some instruments and do it live!

Clearly some of the obsession for studio technique, overdubs and multitracking goes back to the very start of his career, but a lot of it comes down to his breakneck pace of recording. Taking an under-cooked song and then over-producing it was never a great combination.

By contrast the periods of time in the 80s where he had more restrictions in place, forced by circumstance or his contract with WB to deeply iterate on a larger body of work over a longer period of time and trim it down, perfect it, edit down, make tough choices on what stays and goes... well that's how we got Purple Rain, and Sign O The Times. From all accounts that approach made him unhappy, but it produced some great work. As soon as that valve was opened and he could release work as his own pace, the quality of songwriting dropped off a cliff, while over-done studio polish become the norm.

To this day I still feel there are very few studio recordings that give a true account of Prince's musicianship. So much great playing is buried in the mix. He was always better live than he was on tape, and it's a pity no one told him that.

[Edited 3/13/18 2:20am]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #93 posted 03/13/18 7:18am

ufoclub

avatar

Studio tracks like Sign O’ the times, When Doves Cry, Kiss, were never better live in my opinion, and stand as proof that when his unorthodox studio ways came together right, they could be very strong. Strong enough, in fact, to stand out uniquely in the entire pop landscape, even to this day.
Check out a feature film I directed FREE on Amazon Prime: http://a.co/54e7uEG

Check out my first art book: http://www.lulu.com/spotl...ecomicskid

VIDEO WORK: http://sharadkantpatel.com
MUSIC: http://www.soundcloud.com/
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #94 posted 03/13/18 7:36am

bonatoc

avatar

ufoclub said:

Studio tracks like Sign O’ the times, When Doves Cry, Kiss, were never better live in my opinion, and stand as proof that when his unorthodox studio ways came together right, they could be very strong. Strong enough, in fact, to stand out uniquely in the entire pop landscape, even to this day.


And so are "Crystal Ball", "Moonbeam Levels", "Irresistible Bitch", and "Temptation".
But like the good woman says, "There are over 500 experiences to choose from experiences to chose from".
Like the Kid's dad says: "and all diff'rent too".

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #95 posted 03/13/18 7:42am

bonatoc

avatar

ian said:

Personally I think you could improve significantly any of Prince's studio material by simply isolating and mixing the instrumental and vocal performances, and stripping out all the sound effects library shit, the studio technique . For such an accomplished musician who surrounded himself with amazing players, it is odd to note how rarely he felt he could just trust the music to stand on its own two feet. Man, just mic up some instruments and do it live!

Clearly some of the obsession for studio technique, overdubs and multitracking goes back to the very start of his career, but a lot of it comes down to his breakneck pace of recording. Taking an under-cooked song and then over-producing it was never a great combination.

By contrast the periods of time in the 80s where he had more restrictions in place, forced by circumstance or his contract with WB to deeply iterate on a larger body of work over a longer period of time and trim it down, perfect it, edit down, make tough choices on what stays and goes... well that's how we got Purple Rain, and Sign O The Times. From all accounts that approach made him unhappy, but it produced some great work. As soon as that valve was opened and he could release work as his own pace, the quality of songwriting dropped off a cliff, while over-done studio polish become the norm.

To this day I still feel there are very few studio recordings that give a true account of Prince's musicianship. So much great playing is buried in the mix. He was always better live than he was on tape, and it's a pity no one told him that.

[Edited 3/13/18 2:20am]


Now who made you king of the hill?

TGE is a live album. He stripped it down.
There's not a single album that doesn't have live takes past the eighties.
It's just studio live takes. OK, some programming too, but it's always been the case.

[Edited 3/13/18 7:46am]

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #96 posted 03/13/18 11:58am

214

ufoclub said:

Studio tracks like Sign O’ the times, When Doves Cry, Kiss, were never better live in my opinion, and stand as proof that when his unorthodox studio ways came together right, they could be very strong. Strong enough, in fact, to stand out uniquely in the entire pop landscape, even to this day.

I beg to differ, SOTT in the SOTT Rehearsal bottleg is a wonderful rendition.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #97 posted 03/13/18 1:55pm

PeteSilas

on one hand i can understand some of his impatience with things. One of Jimi hendrix's lovers once said that the audience always wants to hear something that is a forgotten work in the artists mind. It's true, people try to drag you down. I can tell you as a creative person. I used to have a music teacher who i'd use to advise me on songs, it was great in many ways, really great but in others, his control issues made it a pain in the ass, i'd be putting endless hours into a song, listening to him, working on it, and at a certain point I'd think "it's done, it's not going to be any better and I'm exhaused" and I'd go in to see him and he'd want some drum fill or some trivial bullshit. what i learned there is that you really shouldn't listen to people because you really will just end up not only exhausted and demoralized but also confused because everyone is going to have their own opinion of what they think you should do and they all will be different. It's just how people are, it happened with a music video i worked on, i sunk tons of energy and time into my video, got sick twice, showed it to a photography teacher after i was done with it, and of course, he thinks I should go back and reshoot a couple things, fuck him, he wasn't there sweating. it's easy for people to do that when they ain't doing the work, you really just have to block them out.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #98 posted 03/13/18 3:12pm

herb4

avatar

What would some of you guys who know the subject say were his BEST produced albums?

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #99 posted 03/13/18 3:33pm

PeteSilas

herb4 said:

What would some of you guys who know the subject say were his BEST produced albums?

hell, i never even did know what a "producer" even was. the word seems to have such a nebulous meaning. sometimes it means just a person who throws money at a project, sometimes it means someone who has total artistic control, sometimes it's a guy like Quincy who really didn't contribute that much writing wise to some of the great albums he put together, he facility was mainly his rolodex of talent, he brought the best together. As far as control freak Prince, he didn't pay for the production of his albums at first, that was WB money, but as far as decision making about what went on them he took total control. Also, they say he overproduced his first album and he admitted not enjoying making it because he wanted it perfect and was "tired all the time" trying to impress on that debut. His second album didn't sound as good but the songs were head and shoulders better in my opinion, he recorded that in i think a few weeks, I think i read controversy was done in a week or so, boggles my mind really, it takes me about two weeks to complete a real song so i wouldn't know how to do an album in that time but when you have a jamming background like Prince i guess it's easy. Maybe he thought it was more important to get the music out of his head than it was to get perfect sound, still, i never had any complaints about the sound on any of his albums, i never liked the hip hop parts but they were easy to ignore, i only wanted good songs and there were always more than enough to make the next Prince album worth listening to.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #100 posted 03/13/18 3:42pm

herb4

avatar

^^^What do you play?^^^

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #101 posted 03/13/18 3:52pm

PeteSilas

herb4 said:

^^^What do you play?^^^

i play keys but i use keys to compose for everything because i hate musicians. so i guess that is one function of a producer, to get people together and make them work smoothly, i can't do it and keep my stuff pure. It's not a good way to work, never, Prince knew that too, for all the "one man band" stuff, he had plenty of help, plenty.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #102 posted 03/13/18 4:21pm

herb4

avatar

PeteSilas said:

herb4 said:

^^^What do you play?^^^

i play keys but i use keys to compose for everything because i hate musicians. so i guess that is one function of a producer, to get people together and make them work smoothly, i can't do it and keep my stuff pure. It's not a good way to work, never, Prince knew that too, for all the "one man band" stuff, he had plenty of help, plenty.

Why do you hate musicians?

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #103 posted 03/13/18 5:34pm

PeteSilas

herb4 said:

PeteSilas said:

i play keys but i use keys to compose for everything because i hate musicians. so i guess that is one function of a producer, to get people together and make them work smoothly, i can't do it and keep my stuff pure. It's not a good way to work, never, Prince knew that too, for all the "one man band" stuff, he had plenty of help, plenty.

Why do you hate musicians?

arrogance, drugs, laziness, flakiness, entitlement and like the people on this site, each and every one thinks their opinion is the very best and right one.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #104 posted 03/14/18 6:34am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

avatar

214 said:



ufoclub said:


Studio tracks like Sign O’ the times, When Doves Cry, Kiss, were never better live in my opinion, and stand as proof that when his unorthodox studio ways came together right, they could be very strong. Strong enough, in fact, to stand out uniquely in the entire pop landscape, even to this day.

I beg to differ, SOTT in the SOTT Rehearsal bottleg is a wonderful rendition.



SOTT live is way better. And there are amazing WDC live versions. The main thing big is they are not the same as the studio versions. Which is as it should be. When ch some folks don’t understand.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #105 posted 03/14/18 7:17am

ufoclub

avatar

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

214 said:



ufoclub said:


Studio tracks like Sign O’ the times, When Doves Cry, Kiss, were never better live in my opinion, and stand as proof that when his unorthodox studio ways came together right, they could be very strong. Strong enough, in fact, to stand out uniquely in the entire pop landscape, even to this day.

I beg to differ, SOTT in the SOTT Rehearsal bottleg is a wonderful rendition.



SOTT live is way better. And there are amazing WDC live versions. The main thing big is they are not the same as the studio versions. Which is as it should be. When ch some folks don’t understand.


SOTT live in 1987 always sounded like it lost the funky bounce on the beat and turned very flat to me. It sounded better during the Act Tours (but they might have started playing a sample of the studio beat?). That’s not to say that the epic guitar playing sounded bad, the added long stretches of electric guitar are cool... but as a whole it doesn’t work as well to me. I could listen to the instrumental studio version of SOTT anytime! (The mix played during the end credits of the concert film)

Same with When Doves Cry or Kiss. the strength of the sounds of those songs was specifically in the way the elements came together in a strong texture in which the core is the beat. It’s very studio specific.

But I know other tracks like “Hot Thing” sounded better to me in their live incarnation. In that case, the live arrangment came together in a stronger funky way. And I certainly don’t mind the very different live arrangements of “If I Was your Girlfriend”. I think it carries much more emotion and soul. The studio version however is a very unique almost alien sound.
Check out a feature film I directed FREE on Amazon Prime: http://a.co/54e7uEG

Check out my first art book: http://www.lulu.com/spotl...ecomicskid

VIDEO WORK: http://sharadkantpatel.com
MUSIC: http://www.soundcloud.com/
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #106 posted 03/14/18 8:04am

Vannormal

avatar

ufoclub said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:
SOTT live is way better. And there are amazing WDC live versions. The main thing big is they are not the same as the studio versions. Which is as it should be. When ch some folks don’t understand.
SOTT live in 1987 always sounded like it lost the funky bounce on the beat and turned very flat to me. It sounded better during the Act Tours (but they might have started playing a sample of the studio beat?). That’s not to say that the epic guitar playing sounded bad, the added long stretches of electric guitar are cool... but as a whole it doesn’t work as well to me. I could listen to the instrumental studio version of SOTT anytime! (The mix played during the end credits of the concert film) Same with When Doves Cry or Kiss. the strength of the sounds of those songs was specifically in the way the elements came together in a strong texture in which the core is the beat. It’s very studio specific. But I know other tracks like “Hot Thing” sounded better to me in their live incarnation. In that case, the live arrangment came together in a stronger funky way. And I certainly don’t mind the very different live arrangements of “If I Was your Girlfriend”. I think it carries much more emotion and soul. The studio version however is a very unique almost alien sound.

I couldn't agree more.

-

For me it's the Dorothy Parker reditions. The album version is so fucking perfect, although he changed the arrangements live very often towards a Jazz work out. Never liked that. Never will. Kill me. wink

-

Strange enough the whole 1999 album has that super dry well produced studio feel that somehow got pretty well translated to a live performance, allbeit much more guitar oriented, but it worked.

I for one never ever loved When Doves Cry live, nor Kiss, and certainly not Nothing Compares 2 U, even Purple Rain, oh and also Bob George.

These gem anthems are so damn well refined in the studio.

-

Then on the other hand, some live performances were sometimes better. The song I Wanna Be Your Lover, Alphabet St, Strange Relationship, Forever In My Life... Oh man, so good.

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #107 posted 03/14/18 12:50pm

PeteSilas

ufoclub said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:
SOTT live is way better. And there are amazing WDC live versions. The main thing big is they are not the same as the studio versions. Which is as it should be. When ch some folks don’t understand.
SOTT live in 1987 always sounded like it lost the funky bounce on the beat and turned very flat to me. It sounded better during the Act Tours (but they might have started playing a sample of the studio beat?). That’s not to say that the epic guitar playing sounded bad, the added long stretches of electric guitar are cool... but as a whole it doesn’t work as well to me. I could listen to the instrumental studio version of SOTT anytime! (The mix played during the end credits of the concert film) Same with When Doves Cry or Kiss. the strength of the sounds of those songs was specifically in the way the elements came together in a strong texture in which the core is the beat. It’s very studio specific. But I know other tracks like “Hot Thing” sounded better to me in their live incarnation. In that case, the live arrangment came together in a stronger funky way. And I certainly don’t mind the very different live arrangements of “If I Was your Girlfriend”. I think it carries much more emotion and soul. The studio version however is a very unique almost alien sound.

to me, it was that rubbery bass line that stuck out and would seem to be something that would be troublesome to duplicate live.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #108 posted 03/14/18 12:55pm

214

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

214 said:

I beg to differ, SOTT in the SOTT Rehearsal bottleg is a wonderful rendition.

SOTT live is way better. And there are amazing WDC live versions. The main thing big is they are not the same as the studio versions. Which is as it should be. When ch some folks don’t understand.

Such a shame there's not and Aodre live version in pristine quality like those in the rehearsal boots.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #109 posted 03/14/18 3:56pm

herb4

avatar

PeteSilas said:

herb4 said:

Why do you hate musicians?

arrogance, drugs, laziness, flakiness, entitlement and like the people on this site, each and every one thinks their opinion is the very best and right one.


So you like art and music but dislike artists and musicians then.

Interesting take. You should think on that a little bit for what it's worth.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #110 posted 03/14/18 4:02pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

herb4 said:

PeteSilas said:

arrogance, drugs, laziness, flakiness, entitlement and like the people on this site, each and every one thinks their opinion is the very best and right one.


So you like art and music but dislike artists and musicians then.

Interesting take. You should think on that a little bit for what it's worth.


Well Wagner was an anti-semitic cunt. And Beethoven shouted at everyone he met even though he was deaf. So there is that. Difference between the artist and the art.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #111 posted 03/14/18 4:16pm

PeteSilas

herb4 said:

PeteSilas said:

arrogance, drugs, laziness, flakiness, entitlement and like the people on this site, each and every one thinks their opinion is the very best and right one.


So you like art and music but dislike artists and musicians then.

Interesting take. You should think on that a little bit for what it's worth.

you must be a musician, sorry to offend you. I am humble, never had to put people's music or them down, never had to be better than anybody so i don't like being around those kinds of people. and i hate drugs and alcohol and that automatically has set me apart from most musicians, i do what i commit to doing when i say i'm going to do it most of the time so i'm nothing like the ones i know.

[Edited 3/14/18 16:19pm]

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #112 posted 03/14/18 4:22pm

PeteSilas

fortuneandserendipity said:

herb4 said:


So you like art and music but dislike artists and musicians then.

Interesting take. You should think on that a little bit for what it's worth.


Well Wagner was an anti-semitic cunt. And Beethoven shouted at everyone he met even though he was deaf. So there is that. Difference between the artist and the art.

i just read bowie was accused of rape, i never would have thought he'd rape anyone so i read up on it, it looks like it was a shakedown. he screwed underage girls but all the rockers did that and many of the rockers were just nasty people, dylan is an asshole, Lennon was often an asshole although he was just as often a good guy, Hendrix tied up and raped one of his girls, beat up women, dissapointing sometimes to find out things about heroes, at some point we need to get rid of our need for heroes as i've said before.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #113 posted 03/14/18 6:03pm

herb4

avatar

PeteSilas said:

herb4 said:


So you like art and music but dislike artists and musicians then.

Interesting take. You should think on that a little bit for what it's worth.

you must be a musician, sorry to offend you. I am humble, never had to put people's music or them down, never had to be better than anybody so i don't like being around those kinds of people. and i hate drugs and alcohol and that automatically has set me apart from most musicians, i do what i commit to doing when i say i'm going to do it most of the time so i'm nothing like the ones i know.

[Edited 3/14/18 16:19pm]

i'm not a musician, you didn't offend me either.

[Edited 3/14/18 18:04pm]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #114 posted 03/14/18 11:04pm

PeteSilas

herb4 said:

PeteSilas said:

you must be a musician, sorry to offend you. I am humble, never had to put people's music or them down, never had to be better than anybody so i don't like being around those kinds of people. and i hate drugs and alcohol and that automatically has set me apart from most musicians, i do what i commit to doing when i say i'm going to do it most of the time so i'm nothing like the ones i know.

[Edited 3/14/18 16:19pm]

i'm not a musician, you didn't offend me either.

[Edited 3/14/18 18:04pm]

good to know

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #115 posted 03/15/18 6:21pm

bonatoc

avatar

PeteSilas said:

fortuneandserendipity said:


Well Wagner was an anti-semitic cunt. And Beethoven shouted at everyone he met even though he was deaf. So there is that. Difference between the artist and the art.

i just read bowie was accused of rape, i never would have thought he'd rape anyone so i read up on it, it looks like it was a shakedown. he screwed underage girls but all the rockers did that and many of the rockers were just nasty people, dylan is an asshole, Lennon was often an asshole although he was just as often a good guy, Hendrix tied up and raped one of his girls, beat up women, dissapointing sometimes to find out things about heroes, at some point we need to get rid of our need for heroes as i've said before.



Would you please lay down your own infamous life moments, Pete?
What shameful thing should we accuse you about?
What's for a life resume: "he was often an asshole although he was just as often a good guy"?
Other than that, aren't you derailing like, your locomotive is deep in the grass for hours?


arrogance,
drugs,
laziness,
flakiness,
entitlement
and like the people on this site,

each and every one thinks their opinion is the very best and right one.


What kind of musicians have you tried to surround yourself with?
SKipper chose them in his hometown first.
The Beatles and The Stones are neighbour friends first.
"Mount Rushmore", man.


And don't put me in your greasy so-called-musicians list, your opinion kind of matters to me.
That said, half of your Dirty List is actually required to qualify as a genius.
The other half being made of qualities, and in the case of Prince, add actually 45 years more, summing up to 95%
of human being and alas 1% brat, 1% scared, 1% alone, 1% careless, and 1% arrogant.

Pissing against the wind, the black sheep, the maverick, call it what you like.
Heroes have qualities. It's not Marvel Comics®.
Any drugged-up fucked-up party will end in disaster, ask Iggy, ask Keith, ask Jimmy.

On the other hand, the wild horses may make you approve
a record sleeve like LotusFlow3r, in which case it means you're on a natural high.
Don't throw the seventies spirit out with the bathwater.
Go listen to some Love, it'll do you good.



[Edited 3/15/18 18:24pm]

[Edited 3/15/18 18:25pm]

[Edited 3/15/18 18:26pm]

[Edited 3/15/18 18:29pm]

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #116 posted 03/15/18 7:59pm

PeteSilas

i'm no saint i've done some bad things, any man has, therefore we need no heroes, i'll get back to you bona.

bonatoc said:

PeteSilas said:

i just read bowie was accused of rape, i never would have thought he'd rape anyone so i read up on it, it looks like it was a shakedown. he screwed underage girls but all the rockers did that and many of the rockers were just nasty people, dylan is an asshole, Lennon was often an asshole although he was just as often a good guy, Hendrix tied up and raped one of his girls, beat up women, dissapointing sometimes to find out things about heroes, at some point we need to get rid of our need for heroes as i've said before.



Would you please lay down your own infamous life moments, Pete?
What shameful thing should we accuse you about?
What's for a life resume: "he was often an asshole although he was just as often a good guy"?
Other than that, aren't you derailing like, your locomotive is deep in the grass for hours?


arrogance,
drugs,
laziness,
flakiness,
entitlement
and like the people on this site,

each and every one thinks their opinion is the very best and right one.


What kind of musicians have you tried to surround yourself with?
SKipper chose them in his hometown first.
The Beatles and The Stones are neighbour friends first.
"Mount Rushmore", man.


And don't put me in your greasy so-called-musicians list, your opinion kind of matters to me.
That said, half of your Dirty List is actually required to qualify as a genius.
The other half being made of qualities, and in the case of Prince, add actually 45 years more, summing up to 95%
of human being and alas 1% brat, 1% scared, 1% alone, 1% careless, and 1% arrogant.

Pissing against the wind, the black sheep, the maverick, call it what you like.
Heroes have qualities. It's not Marvel Comics®.
Any drugged-up fucked-up party will end in disaster, ask Iggy, ask Keith, ask Jimmy.

On the other hand, the wild horses may make you approve
a record sleeve like LotusFlow3r, in which case it means you're on a natural high.
Don't throw the seventies spirit out with the bathwater.
Go listen to some Love, it'll do you good.



[Edited 3/15/18 18:24pm]

[Edited 3/15/18 18:25pm]

[Edited 3/15/18 18:26pm]

[Edited 3/15/18 18:29pm]

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #117 posted 03/15/18 10:57pm

PeteSilas

getting back to our tiff here bona, just the way I see things, I've studied many a great man and although they all had some heroic qualities all of them had horrible qualities too. I've personally outgrown heroes as such, that doesn't mean I do not still admire the hell out of Malcolm x, Muhammad ali or Prince although they may have been hypocrites, may have been phonies in their some of their representations to the public, they all still had great qualities.

I personally think we need to get rid of not only heroes but celebrities which aren't even heroes necessarily but people who may have somehow lucked into some kind of notoriety for little reason of their own. the way people are ready to fawn and drool over them makes me sick and it's not even the celeb in question, it's the actual nature of celebrity. and nowadays, with all this internet and instant info we get, any dirt that is available is only a posting away from everyone knowing it and that celebs career being over. I am watching it happen to a local indian author right now, he's done, he had an adoring white public but he wasn't a very nice person, now he's done just that fast. Is that fair? Not really but white people are like that, once they see a flaw they are done with you.

as far as me and musicians, i just admittedly have kind of a short fuse and also i'm humble so it's hard to keep people in check because most people are just so competitive it would take a ton of energy for me to protect myself and it would also make me feel bad because the way most people treat each other would make me feel bad, i'd rather not do it. It ain't just musicians bona, it's humanity, buckle up because we're in for some crazy times, none of us can get along, as for me, I love my time alone and i love my time in prayer, i don't really need a lot of human contact, the less the better. I think the reason a lot of people need human contact is because they need faces to distract from themselves, it's the reason why solitary confinement is the one of the worst punishments, just think about that, prisoners would actually rather be around murderers, rapists, child molesters, thieves than to face themselves. well, i don't have that problem, i like me.

bonatoc said:

PeteSilas said:

i just read bowie was accused of rape, i never would have thought he'd rape anyone so i read up on it, it looks like it was a shakedown. he screwed underage girls but all the rockers did that and many of the rockers were just nasty people, dylan is an asshole, Lennon was often an asshole although he was just as often a good guy, Hendrix tied up and raped one of his girls, beat up women, dissapointing sometimes to find out things about heroes, at some point we need to get rid of our need for heroes as i've said before.



Would you please lay down your own infamous life moments, Pete?
What shameful thing should we accuse you about?
What's for a life resume: "he was often an asshole although he was just as often a good guy"?
Other than that, aren't you derailing like, your locomotive is deep in the grass for hours?


arrogance,
drugs,
laziness,
flakiness,
entitlement
and like the people on this site,

each and every one thinks their opinion is the very best and right one.


What kind of musicians have you tried to surround yourself with?
SKipper chose them in his hometown first.
The Beatles and The Stones are neighbour friends first.
"Mount Rushmore", man.


And don't put me in your greasy so-called-musicians list, your opinion kind of matters to me.
That said, half of your Dirty List is actually required to qualify as a genius.
The other half being made of qualities, and in the case of Prince, add actually 45 years more, summing up to 95%
of human being and alas 1% brat, 1% scared, 1% alone, 1% careless, and 1% arrogant.

Pissing against the wind, the black sheep, the maverick, call it what you like.
Heroes have qualities. It's not Marvel Comics®.
Any drugged-up fucked-up party will end in disaster, ask Iggy, ask Keith, ask Jimmy.

On the other hand, the wild horses may make you approve
a record sleeve like LotusFlow3r, in which case it means you're on a natural high.
Don't throw the seventies spirit out with the bathwater.
Go listen to some Love, it'll do you good.



[Edited 3/15/18 18:24pm]

[Edited 3/15/18 18:25pm]

[Edited 3/15/18 18:26pm]

[Edited 3/15/18 18:29pm]

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #118 posted 03/15/18 11:34pm

Vannormal

avatar

fortuneandserendipity said:

herb4 said:


So you like art and music but dislike artists and musicians then.

Interesting take. You should think on that a little bit for what it's worth.


Well Wagner was an anti-semitic cunt. And Beethoven shouted at everyone he met even though he was deaf. So there is that. Difference between the artist and the art.

You think Prince was a saint ?

Beethoven may have shouted, then it was at least perfectly clear of what he wanted (maybe). wink No I'm joking. You're right somehow. And like sadly enough Wagner was indeed a anti-semitic loser, i couldn't agree with you more. But still I can listen to Wagner.

-

Concerning Pirnce, we heard past stories from others how he could behave quite shitty towards his fella musicians and co-workers.

You were not allowed to say this, or do that, always be there on his terms, no matter what. It seems like his ability to have some empathy was put aside, always and again to create music or whatever.

-

There are countless stories of great people (engineers, musicians, etc) that had serious issues with Prince if you read between the lines. I can easily call that the behaviour of a silent tiran (at least). (or did he suffer form kind of a Napoleon complex?...)

I thankfully never had to deal with Prince. I think he could be (don't kill me for these words) a real cunt and asshole as well. He certainly was no saint.

And it's just normal. He was as human as we all are. Don't get me wrong, thàt doesn't make him less inspiring or good and genius as a musician or songwriter. He was super gifted and talented, limitless even. But to achieve some goals, one has to 'live' with others. He changed over the years though, getting older. Cause these kind of inside stories of silent complaints stopped. Some proof maybe.

I couldn't care for any interesting artist of no matter what discipline to be an asshole or not. As long as I don't have to deal with it personally. smile As ong as they don't torture or muder people. wink

[Edited 3/15/18 23:36pm]

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #119 posted 03/16/18 12:57pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

Vannormal said:

fortuneandserendipity said:


Well Wagner was an anti-semitic cunt. And Beethoven shouted at everyone he met even though he was deaf. So there is that. Difference between the artist and the art.

You think Prince was a saint ?

Beethoven may have shouted, then it was at least perfectly clear of what he wanted (maybe). wink No I'm joking. You're right somehow. And like sadly enough Wagner was indeed a anti-semitic loser, i couldn't agree with you more. But still I can listen to Wagner.

-

Concerning Pirnce, we heard past stories from others how he could behave quite shitty towards his fella musicians and co-workers.

You were not allowed to say this, or do that, always be there on his terms, no matter what. It seems like his ability to have some empathy was put aside, always and again to create music or whatever.

-

There are countless stories of great people (engineers, musicians, etc) that had serious issues with Prince if you read between the lines. I can easily call that the behaviour of a silent tiran (at least). (or did he suffer form kind of a Napoleon complex?...)

I thankfully never had to deal with Prince. I think he could be (don't kill me for these words) a real cunt and asshole as well. He certainly was no saint.

And it's just normal. He was as human as we all are. Don't get me wrong, thàt doesn't make him less inspiring or good and genius as a musician or songwriter. He was super gifted and talented, limitless even. But to achieve some goals, one has to 'live' with others. He changed over the years though, getting older. Cause these kind of inside stories of silent complaints stopped. Some proof maybe.

I couldn't care for any interesting artist of no matter what discipline to be an asshole or not. As long as I don't have to deal with it personally. smile As ong as they don't torture or muder people. wink

[Edited 3/15/18 23:36pm]


I've had two friends under 5ft 4 and I would say both had the Napoleon complex. Both had charles manson characteristics even l o l.

But anyway, all geniuses run out of lithium (natural brain mineral) eventually...and that's when the behaviour problems start.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Page 4 of 5 <12345>
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Prince: Music and More > What were Prince’s weaknesses production-wise?