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Reply #30 posted 10/06/18 10:21am

bonatoc

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jdcxc said:

bonatoc said:


Yup, let's add a million or so between "Manic Monday", "Nothing Compares 2 U", and "I Feel For You".
Probably more.

[Edited 10/5/18 7:25am]

True...and don’t forget The Time, Sheila E, Vanity 6 which are almost exclusively Prince albums. Anaylsis of Prince’s record sales really illustrate his artistic independence and integrity. He truly is a “cult” artist who occasionally got commercially lucky.


I see what you mean but I won't put it that way. "Occasionally"? "Lucky"?
Nope. When Prince rearranges one last time the Sign O' The Times tracklist,
it's like Michael coming with Beat It at the last minute. Prince knew he had a top ten
and decided to put it in a very dry, sparse, lo-fi sounding album. But the boombastic effect is welcome,
it's like Parade, "Kiss" comes as a 60's UFO across Clare Fischer's lush landscapes. And so does SISIA.

It's more like: Prince could have written a dozen TMBGITW over thirty years and sell a minimum of a million every time, but he chose not to do so. When he could have milked all the eighties with slight variations of the Kid, he spitted it all out in a single tour (dressed in black, in white, in red, in green, in your granma's curtains) and then all of the sudden there was a love letter to the sixties and the hippies (before turning into soldiers, purple fa.n.m.s were often knicknamed "hippies").

Some go full fire over Prince's behaviour in the nineties from a business standpoint,
but hey, he did it every decade.

First of all, Dirty Mind. It was deemed "the most dramatic U-turn in pop's history", with good reasons. The impact of this album on the intelligentsias on both coasts and european capitals was immense, But it's also the very first, total, suicidal career move, and thank God WB was still in good, clever, hands. When you got such a stallion in your pack, you give him free reins. Here's a pop musician that had already built a comfortable niche for himself in the romantic-soft-porn slow jams and bubble-gum pop, already tickling the top tens by the second album, and yes, he throws it all away. He rips it in half under the shower and pisses on it (but purely for saving water), thighs all hairy. Suddenly, trash porn!

Second, ATWIAD. It's even more incredible. Springsteen waited 3 years between Born in the U.S.A. and Tunnel Of Love. Michael Jackson waited 5 years between Thriller and Bad. Madonna waited... OK, Madge worked her ass off too, but "True Blue" is the embourgeoisement of the brat, all of a sudden it's very catholic, nipples as weapons, the character grows in time with her fans (By Erotica, they're in their twenties). But Prince, after capturing the show-business mothership with his rebels in a blazing nine months, Prince, no, he doesn't wrap himself in the mystique of absence alibi, he delivers a bastard child, intellectual, sophisiticated, calling Brian Wilson, John Lennon, Paul McCartney, Devo, Springsteen, gospel, jazz, scat, Hendrix, and closing with Elvis doing Iggy on "Temptation", but maybe it's the other way. Masses don't get it, except for the beret, you know what a beret is, don't you you popcorn eating yelling live concerts nuisance.

NC2U being the poster child of what I'm talking about. A left-over that probably adds more than a million to the count.
Prince could have played Joey Coco and Christopher all his life.
Just cashing in. "Manic Monday" is a leftover too. I think this temptation of taking it easy is in great part what the Spooky Electric concept was about. Wherever he turned, most of the L.A. and N.Y. scene in the eighties was doing a ton of coke,
just look at some of the music videos in the eighties. And no one would work as much as him, so suddenly, loneliness.
Like sipping cocktails one year and going into the studio the other was the expected behaviour in the industry. Curious, Prince tries drugs, but whatever happens to him eventually turns into a song, he just can't help it. And here's the difference between a SKipper and your regular seaman (no, not semen).

So to me the story goes: he could have lived like a nabab doing what is expected of pop stars (3 records a decade for the most prestigious ones, everything has to be an event, oh, look, a stalin-like effigy floating on a river, oh, a soft-porn tetanos-inducing overpriced "art" book), such was his talent. And such was his respect for what he had been given that he crossed the line, and went the difficult path. It would have been such a waste for Pop Music to have Prince staying in the comfort zone. Say what you will about the nineties, but at least they're exciting, off limits, economically self-sufficient and with a smart eye focused on the future of music distribution, and his wallet. Also, imagine PP going totally bankrupt, building in ruins or Prince forced to sell it... Now it's obvious why it didn't happen. With airplays alone, Prince had enough to indulge in his craziest male/female series of love fantasies for a decade. His eighties records were ageing like fine wine. The moment he ended this "hardcore fans" decade, he was back, slick as ever, outsmarting Nielsen ratings with just a catalogue tour (I my seem to blabber like an old fart, but I can't help of thinking about it) and adding close to 3 millions physical(!) units to the above list. With the same truck fuel transporting the tour stage AND the record in the hand of the public. One seldom thinks about it, but transporting a blockbuster from fabric to shelves is no small feat, even if nowadays the physical has (almost entirely) transcended in favour of the digital.



[Edited 10/6/18 10:41am]

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #31 posted 10/06/18 2:34pm

206Michelle

How does Emancipation have more streams than Chaos and Disorder? C&D has been on Tidal for longer than Emancipation. Were Tidal's numbers included in the calculations?

Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above
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Reply #32 posted 10/07/18 5:55am

SpamelaAnusorn

My favorite are Purple Rain, Lotusfowler and Orphan Album heart

DANCE 4 ME!!
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Reply #33 posted 10/08/18 10:06am

nextedition

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Kinda weird that parade sold more singles than Diamonds and Pearls. The last one had three big hits, plus a few not so big hits.
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Reply #34 posted 10/08/18 10:34am

Graciegirl719

nextedition said:

Kinda weird that parade sold more singles than Diamonds and Pearls. The last one had three big hits, plus a few not so big hits.

My guess is because of Kiss. That song was huge.

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Reply #35 posted 10/09/18 6:36am

bonatoc

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nextedition said:

Kinda weird that parade sold more singles than Diamonds and Pearls. The last one had three big hits, plus a few not so big hits.


Keep in mind it was on the top of all critics polls, and 1986 was the tail of the Purple Rain comet: he still was a megastar.
Also, "Kiss" was truly a worldwide hit and probably amounts to a big share of Parade's singles.
But it was also his first American Invasion, and Europe is a BIG market.


[Edited 10/9/18 14:59pm]

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #36 posted 10/09/18 6:38am

bonatoc

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Do double albums figures have to be divided in half?
In other words, did he sell under 5 mil. SOTT and a little over 5 mil. for 1999?

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #37 posted 10/09/18 9:26am

wouldntulove2l
oveme

Is there a reason Crystal Ball and One Nite Alone are not on here?

If a man is considered guilty
For what goes on in his mind
Then give me the electric chair
For all my future crimes"
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Reply #38 posted 11/02/18 7:23am

Wane20

All of These numbers are accurate which is impressive to say the least. Not even including his side projects or Compilation projects as a whole, which I will estimate that it will catapult him into the 200million range. Disputing the myth that the media, and haters being saying He didn't have the popularity or the sales of a pop star. Go to show true artists are appreciated
Eye ppl call Prince a modern Mozart or Purple hendrix Prince is The one and only Prince that universe galaxy or whatever u want 2 call it will ever know
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Reply #39 posted 11/03/18 3:10pm

RODSERLING

Wane20 said:

All of These numbers are accurate which is impressive to say the least. Not even including his side projects or Compilation projects as a whole, which I will estimate that it will catapult him into the 200million range. Disputing the myth that the media, and haters being saying He didn't have the popularity or the sales of a pop star. Go to show true artists are appreciated

.
Not accurate at all : Purple Rain Never sold 16.6 millions in the US, 1999 Never sold 5.5 millions neither ( what drug they used?!). If Kiss sold 2.5 millions, then When Doves Cry should be at 5 millions.
.
No way Purple Rain sold 1.1 millions in the uk, in fact britain certifications are updated fréquently, and it Never reached thé 3*Platinum mark.
.

On thé other side thé eponym Prince album sold more than 1.3 millions in the US. It probably sold that amount only during its first year, and IS in fact its Third best selling catalogue studio album.
.
Batman At 6 millions ? Must bé a typo, thé sales were at 4.4 millions in 1992 and thé album IS a Bad catalogue seller, éven When Prince died !
.
And thé list if mistakes goes on and on : COME at 350.000 in the US (did they forger Music club ever existed?), SOTT too high,and in complète contradiction with thé official numbers released in 1992, etc.
.
Thé méthod of turning sales into streaming to judge its popularity IS highly debatable un itself, especially When thé numbers are not accurate.
.
Then why,for instance, don t add sales of When Doves Cry to 17 days ? This list succeed un contradicting its own rules.
.
Why streaming sales should count, but not thé so-called "Given" millions of copies of 2010 and Planèt Earth, that were un fact not Given for free on thé contrary of thé streaming ?
Mâkes no sensé at all.
.
[Edited 11/3/18 15:16pm]
[Edited 11/3/18 15:16pm]
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Reply #40 posted 11/03/18 5:44pm

spelchek

RODSERLING said:

Wane20 said:
All of These numbers are accurate which is impressive to say the least. Not even including his side projects or Compilation projects as a whole, which I will estimate that it will catapult him into the 200million range. Disputing the myth that the media, and haters being saying He didn't have the popularity or the sales of a pop star. Go to show true artists are appreciated
. Not accurate at all : Purple Rain Never sold 16.6 millions in the US, 1999 Never sold 5.5 millions neither ( what drug they used?!). If Kiss sold 2.5 millions, then When Doves Cry should be at 5 millions. . No way Purple Rain sold 1.1 millions in the uk, in fact britain certifications are updated fréquently, and it Never reached thé 3*Platinum mark. . On thé other side thé eponym Prince album sold more than 1.3 millions in the US. It probably sold that amount only during its first year, and IS in fact its Third best selling catalogue studio album. . Batman At 6 millions ? Must bé a typo, thé sales were at 4.4 millions in 1992 and thé album IS a Bad catalogue seller, éven When Prince died ! . And thé list if mistakes goes on and on : COME at 350.000 in the US (did they forger Music club ever existed?), SOTT too high,and in complète contradiction with thé official numbers released in 1992, etc. . Thé méthod of turning sales into streaming to judge its popularity IS highly debatable un itself, especially When thé numbers are not accurate. . Then why,for instance, don t add sales of When Doves Cry to 17 days ? This list succeed un contradicting its own rules. . Why streaming sales should count, but not thé so-called "Given" millions of copies of 2010 and Planèt Earth, that were un fact not Given for free on thé contrary of thé streaming ? Mâkes no sensé at all. . [Edited 11/3/18 15:16pm] [Edited 11/3/18 15:16pm]

Hello Rod

I have no idea about the rest of your post but i think 1.1 million for Purple Rain in the UK is more than possible.The 2*Platinum Award was..ahem.. awarded in May 1990.Now bear with me. In September of 2014 the said album was a re-entry on the UK Top 20 for one short week (it was 99p on Google Play)where it sold 3270 copies.It was also revealed at the time that same week that the album had sold 300,744 copies in total by Millward Brown(the compilers of the Official chart)from February 1994 to that date of re entry in September 2014.

So 84-90=600000

94-2014=300000

Its not that great a stretch to suppose that it sold a few thousand 90-94 is it? Obviously we can then add the posthumous numbers too and a million seems plausible and even likely.On a perhaps relatable point the album appears on the official uk charts artist page for Prince as 2 separate releases. Warners until 1992. Then Paisley/Warners from 1995.This could explain the lack of a third *.Equally of course i could be talking bollocks and you may be right too

Either way its a groovy album which sold a lot. We can all agree on that

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Reply #41 posted 11/04/18 1:14am

RODSERLING

spelchek said:



RODSERLING said:


Wane20 said:
All of These numbers are accurate which is impressive to say the least. Not even including his side projects or Compilation projects as a whole, which I will estimate that it will catapult him into the 200million range. Disputing the myth that the media, and haters being saying He didn't have the popularity or the sales of a pop star. Go to show true artists are appreciated

. Not accurate at all : Purple Rain Never sold 16.6 millions in the US, 1999 Never sold 5.5 millions neither ( what drug they used?!). If Kiss sold 2.5 millions, then When Doves Cry should be at 5 millions. . No way Purple Rain sold 1.1 millions in the uk, in fact britain certifications are updated fréquently, and it Never reached thé 3*Platinum mark. . On thé other side thé eponym Prince album sold more than 1.3 millions in the US. It probably sold that amount only during its first year, and IS in fact its Third best selling catalogue studio album. . Batman At 6 millions ? Must bé a typo, thé sales were at 4.4 millions in 1992 and thé album IS a Bad catalogue seller, éven When Prince died ! . And thé list if mistakes goes on and on : COME at 350.000 in the US (did they forger Music club ever existed?), SOTT too high,and in complète contradiction with thé official numbers released in 1992, etc. . Thé méthod of turning sales into streaming to judge its popularity IS highly debatable un itself, especially When thé numbers are not accurate. . Then why,for instance, don t add sales of When Doves Cry to 17 days ? This list succeed un contradicting its own rules. . Why streaming sales should count, but not thé so-called "Given" millions of copies of 2010 and Planèt Earth, that were un fact not Given for free on thé contrary of thé streaming ? Mâkes no sensé at all. . [Edited 11/3/18 15:16pm] [Edited 11/3/18 15:16pm]

Hello Rod



I have no idea about the rest of your post but i think 1.1 million for Purple Rain in the UK is more than possible.The 2*Platinum Award was..ahem.. awarded in May 1990.Now bear with me. In September of 2014 the said album was a re-entry on the UK Top 20 for one short week (it was 99p on Google Play)where it sold 3270 copies.It was also revealed at the time that same week that the album had sold 300,744 copies in total by Millward Brown(the compilers of the Official chart)from February 1994 to that date of re entry in September 2014.



So 84-90=600000


94-2014=300000



Its not that great a stretch to suppose that it sold a few thousand 90-94 is it? Obviously we can then add the posthumous numbers too and a million seems plausible and even likely.On a perhaps relatable point the album appears on the official uk charts artist page for Prince as 2 separate releases. Warners until 1992. Then Paisley/Warners from 1995.This could explain the lack of a third *.Equally of course i could be talking bollocks and you may be right too



Either way its a groovy album which sold a lot. We can all agree on that





Thanks for this very detailed and interesting post!
.
Thé album listed as two separates release could logically explain why it hasn t Been certified 3*P.
.
I Hope you ré right, cause it would bé cool for Prince to have one million seller on thé Uk but...hard to believe that thé album sold something like 66% of its total sales After thé promotion of thé album. If it s indeed thé case, what a gréat achievment ! Whereas Diamonds sold apparently 95% of its sales during its promotion...
.
I Never Saw Purple Rain listed on thé albums selling a million copies, and Diamonds and Pearls sounded as a more likely candidate.
.
But I have no reasons to doubt your numbers and figures.
[Edited 11/4/18 1:15am]
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Reply #42 posted 11/04/18 7:18am

bonatoc

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RODSERLING said:

Wane20 said:
All of These numbers are accurate which is impressive to say the least. Not even including his side projects or Compilation projects as a whole, which I will estimate that it will catapult him into the 200million range. Disputing the myth that the media, and haters being saying He didn't have the popularity or the sales of a pop star. Go to show true artists are appreciated
. Not accurate at all : Purple Rain Never sold 16.6 millions in the US, 1999 Never sold 5.5 millions neither ( what drug they used?!). If Kiss sold 2.5 millions, then When Doves Cry should be at 5 millions. . No way Purple Rain sold 1.1 millions in the uk, in fact britain certifications are updated fréquently, and it Never reached thé 3*Platinum mark. . On thé other side thé eponym Prince album sold more than 1.3 millions in the US. It probably sold that amount only during its first year, and IS in fact its Third best selling catalogue studio album. . Batman At 6 millions ? Must bé a typo, thé sales were at 4.4 millions in 1992 and thé album IS a Bad catalogue seller, éven When Prince died ! . And thé list if mistakes goes on and on : COME at 350.000 in the US (did they forger Music club ever existed?), SOTT too high,and in complète contradiction with thé official numbers released in 1992, etc. . Thé méthod of turning sales into streaming to judge its popularity IS highly debatable un itself, especially When thé numbers are not accurate. . Then why,for instance, don t add sales of When Doves Cry to 17 days ? This list succeed un contradicting its own rules. . Why streaming sales should count, but not thé so-called "Given" millions of copies of 2010 and Planèt Earth, that were un fact not Given for free on thé contrary of thé streaming ? Mâkes no sensé at all. . [Edited 11/3/18 15:16pm] [Edited 11/3/18 15:16pm]


Do you have some WB or RIAA insider info to claim your stance?

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #43 posted 11/08/18 10:13am

Electrostar

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If all copies of the Graffiti Bridge album sold were placed in a neat stack they would rise FIVE MILES into the air. eek

Get up, come on let's do something.
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Reply #44 posted 11/09/18 4:51am

BartVanHemelen

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bonatoc said:


Springsteen waited 3 years between Born in the U.S.A. and Tunnel Of Love.

.

He didn't. He toured for over a year, and then spent months compiling a live box set that was a massive seller (and it spawned two hit singles). And less than a year afterwards he released his new album.

.

But Prince, after capturing the show-business mothership with his rebels in a blazing nine months, Prince, no, he doesn't wrap himself in the mystique of absence alibi,

.

But he wanted to, even loudly announced this. And then sales were dismal and he changed his plans and singles were released etc.

.

Say what you will about the nineties, but at least they're exciting, off limits, economically self-sufficient and with a smart eye focused on the future of music distribution, and his wallet. Also, imagine PP going totally bankrupt, building in ruins or Prince forced to sell it... Now it's obvious why it didn't happen. With airplays alone, Prince had enough to indulge in his craziest male/female series of love fantasies for a decade.

.

Except that he was in dire straits by the end of the 1980s (hence the Japan Lovesexy tour and the massive business overhaul, e.g. firing his management team), and in the mid-1990s his hometown paper ran a multi-day series of articles on PP stiffing local businesses. The 1995 Euro tour was again a massive economical disaster, with the crew being forced to abandon massive parts of the decor en route because a) they wouldn't fit the halls they were playing and b) without a record company subsidy/loan touring turned out to be fricking expensive.

.

Post-Warners the scale-back of his operations is enormous, and over the years he keeps "hiring" amateurs for jobs that really should have been handled by professionals. Hence the utter failure of NPGMC v1. Hence the CB disaster. Etc.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #45 posted 11/09/18 1:28pm

bonatoc

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^ Thank you for the heads up, Bart.

I was mainly speaking about creativity, but I find the business trainwrecks you mention fascinating.
Also infuriating when one thinks about all that could have been, but they're proof the man was so absorbed in his studio life that he lost touch with reality, and his over-inflated ego nailed the coffin. Still, I find the era interesting precisely because of Prince's shortcomings. His frustrations, his paranoia, his over-the-top ambitions, they bursted in genius flashes. We did not get essential or definitive albums, it's all fragmented, nevertheless some nineties masterpieces wouldn't exist without the chaos and disorder that was.

But let's not diminish Prince's fierce fights for indipendence, his distribution ideas and the reclaiming for a fair artist's share.
They helped change a whole industry, even if, alas, he was one of the very few able to profit from it, shortly before torrents and streaming reduced popular music to shambles.

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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