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Thread started 01/10/19 3:30am

fabriziovenera
ndi

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Listening Prince's voices in a new way

I was in the car listening Chocolate Invasion by attaching the cable to the car stereo when the cable for some strange reasons, broke. it's already happened: in the car the cable falls and someone crushes and so on.


Shaking it a little a strange thing happened: in practice, in these Prince songs I can listen only a few instruments, clearly, and others not and above all, in most of the songs,Prince's voice is an inaudibile distant echo while the choirs, always with his own voice, they were as clear as they could ever be heard.

in some places it was moving: hear Prince's voice sing as I had never heard it before.

It was as if I only listened to some traces of a multi tracks, which is obviously impossible.

how do you explain the thing? is it possible to recreate the same thing digitally?

[Edited 1/10/19 3:31am]

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Reply #1 posted 01/10/19 5:15am

JorisE73

fabriziovenerandi said:

I was in the car listening Chocolate Invasion by attaching the cable to the car stereo when the cable for some strange reasons, broke. it's already happened: in the car the cable falls and someone crushes and so on.


Shaking it a little a strange thing happened: in practice, in these Prince songs I can listen only a few instruments, clearly, and others not and above all, in most of the songs,Prince's voice is an inaudibile distant echo while the choirs, always with his own voice, they were as clear as they could ever be heard.

in some places it was moving: hear Prince's voice sing as I had never heard it before.

It was as if I only listened to some traces of a multi tracks, which is obviously impossible.

how do you explain the thing? is it possible to recreate the same thing digitally?

[Edited 1/10/19 3:31am]



I used to do this back in teh day with my walkman. I just pulled the headphone jack slightly out and got the same effect.

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Reply #2 posted 01/10/19 7:40am

Rimshottbob

You're basically not getting the full stereo effect. You're getting one channel coming through, so you're hearing all the voice and instruments that are on that channel.

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Reply #3 posted 01/10/19 8:00am

bonatoc

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fabriziovenerandi said:

I was in the car listening Chocolate Invasion by attaching the cable to the car stereo when the cable for some strange reasons, broke. it's already happened: in the car the cable falls and someone crushes and so on.


Shaking it a little a strange thing happened: in practice, in these Prince songs I can listen only a few instruments, clearly, and others not and above all, in most of the songs,Prince's voice is an inaudibile distant echo while the choirs, always with his own voice, they were as clear as they could ever be heard.

in some places it was moving: hear Prince's voice sing as I had never heard it before.

It was as if I only listened to some traces of a multi tracks, which is obviously impossible.

how do you explain the thing?
is it possible to recreate the same thing digitally?


Most probably stereo phase cancellation (or "reversal", or "inversion").

Stereo (or mono in some cases) signals get cancelled because of a wire touching another (when it's supposed no to), and you're left with only panned (left or right) signals, or with what was mixed in the center. The more the signal is on one of the extremes (full right or full left), the more it is audible.

Some audio plug-ins exist for the job, but since your starting point is a final mix,
you'll get audio artefacts, inevitably. There are also some manual methods at hand if you have a DAW. Nerd stuff.



The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #4 posted 01/10/19 8:59am

Musze

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I don't know there's ever been an artist who can harmonize background and layered vocals as brilliantly as Prince did. It's mind-blowing when you take a listen, even during some of his "weaker" periods... that was pretty constant.

Scottie Baldwin told him something similar in the late 90's and flattered Prince.

I Love U, But I Don't Trust U Anymore...
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Reply #5 posted 01/10/19 9:04am

TrivialPursuit

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JorisE73 said:

I used to do this back in teh day with my walkman. I just pulled the headphone jack slightly out and got the same effect.


I used to do that. You never knew what you were going to get, but you could manipulate that plug ("just let me put the tip in" he said) and get all sorts of half-stereo type feeds.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
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Reply #6 posted 01/10/19 10:09am

3stori3s

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Reply #7 posted 01/10/19 11:27am

bonatoc

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3stori3s said:

Here are some really good examples of this:

.

.

.

.

Lavaux - https://www.youtube.com/w...iwDsBr92MI

Vavoom - https://www.youtube.com/w...MYnQNnWG8A

Song of the Heart - https://www.youtube.com/w...c1_hWQicfU

Glasscutter - https://www.youtube.com/w...QQEsAN96RU

Love - https://www.youtube.com/w...mXeY3jlNA8

Hot Wit U - https://www.youtube.com/w...Y_xHCXq4VM

Sticky Like Glue - https://www.youtube.com/w...sWyOLW4uQc

Illusion, Coma, Pimp & Circumstance - https://www.youtube.com/w...3nlEIsWX_I


eek


Wow.
Thank you for this. Impressive (as "usual").

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #8 posted 01/10/19 11:48am

ISaidLifeIsJus
tAGame

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3stori3s said:

Here are some really good examples of this:

.

.

.

.

Lavaux - https://www.youtube.com/w...iwDsBr92MI

Vavoom - https://www.youtube.com/w...MYnQNnWG8A

Song of the Heart - https://www.youtube.com/w...c1_hWQicfU

Glasscutter - https://www.youtube.com/w...QQEsAN96RU

Love - https://www.youtube.com/w...mXeY3jlNA8

Hot Wit U - https://www.youtube.com/w...Y_xHCXq4VM

Sticky Like Glue - https://www.youtube.com/w...sWyOLW4uQc

Illusion, Coma, Pimp & Circumstance - https://www.youtube.com/w...3nlEIsWX_I

Thanks for the links!

I have a different perspective on these songs now.

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Reply #9 posted 01/10/19 12:00pm

fabriziovenera
ndi

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Rimshottbob said:

You're basically not getting the full stereo effect. You're getting one channel coming through, so you're hearing all the voice and instruments that are on that channel.

.

Hi, no, it is not a single channel. Look 3stori3s links for understand the effect.

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Reply #10 posted 01/10/19 12:01pm

fabriziovenera
ndi

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bonatoc said:

Most probably stereo phase cancellation (or "reversal", or "inversion").

.

Thank you for the answer, very interesting. I tried today using audacity, but I don't get the same results. Is is not easy.

[Edited 1/10/19 12:18pm]

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Reply #11 posted 01/10/19 12:04pm

fabriziovenera
ndi

avatar

3stori3s said:

Here are some really good examples of this:

.

.

.

.

Lavaux - https://www.youtube.com/w...iwDsBr92MI

Vavoom - https://www.youtube.com/w...MYnQNnWG8A

Song of the Heart - https://www.youtube.com/w...c1_hWQicfU

Glasscutter - https://www.youtube.com/w...QQEsAN96RU

Love - https://www.youtube.com/w...mXeY3jlNA8

Hot Wit U - https://www.youtube.com/w...Y_xHCXq4VM

Sticky Like Glue - https://www.youtube.com/w...sWyOLW4uQc

Illusion, Coma, Pimp & Circumstance - https://www.youtube.com/w...3nlEIsWX_I

.

Exactly this! How did you work this in digital? Did you stolen my car??

Another song that is interesting in isolated chorus is Underneath the Cream.

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Reply #12 posted 01/10/19 12:12pm

iZsaZsa

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3stori3s said:

Here are some really good examples of this:

.

.

.

.

Lavaux - https://www.youtube.com/w...iwDsBr92MI

Vavoom - https://www.youtube.com/w...MYnQNnWG8A

Song of the Heart - https://www.youtube.com/w...c1_hWQicfU

Glasscutter - https://www.youtube.com/w...QQEsAN96RU

Love - https://www.youtube.com/w...mXeY3jlNA8

Hot Wit U - https://www.youtube.com/w...Y_xHCXq4VM

Sticky Like Glue - https://www.youtube.com/w...sWyOLW4uQc

Illusion, Coma, Pimp & Circumstance - https://www.youtube.com/w...3nlEIsWX_I

music

What?
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Reply #13 posted 01/10/19 12:52pm

Wolfie87

Omg, imagine Pink Cashmere or Adore using those tools!!
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Reply #14 posted 01/10/19 2:12pm

42Kristen

mad

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Reply #15 posted 01/10/19 5:05pm

Transformed1

I used to do this with Pop Life. Sounds great.

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Reply #16 posted 01/11/19 12:08am

bonatoc

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Transformed1 said:

I used to do this with Pop Life. Sounds great.


Back when I was a kid, the home stereo had one of the speakers with the plus and minus wires inverted.
As a result, the stereo slap echo of "Pop Life" was lost on me for a whole year.
The lead vocal was just on time, in the center, without the typical 16th triplet or something delay.
Until the day I put my walkman on, and my first reaction is "there's something wrong with the audio here",
but of course I was just hearing how it was originally meant/mixed.

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #17 posted 01/11/19 4:29am

evdas

I used to have a hi-fi with surround speakers and found that if you disconnected the main speakers you could hear very different version of some tracks through the surround speakers.

First noticed this purely by accident while listening to 'The Future' from Batman album. It seemed to take away the main vocal and some instruments leaving you with tripped down version of the track and Prince's backing vocals.

If I remember rightly it only worked with more modern CD's

Interesting if only to hear a little of how the track was layered together.

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Reply #18 posted 01/12/19 4:58am

fabriziovenera
ndi

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Underneath Underneath the Cream

[Edited 1/12/19 5:00am]

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Reply #19 posted 01/12/19 12:35pm

3stori3s

Wolfie87 said:

Omg, imagine Pink Cashmere or Adore using those tools!!

Post 2000 tracks work MUCH better with this technique because of the change in recording methods. I've been wanting to get around to doing some HitNRun and AOA stuff but just haven't yet. I guarantee there's some interesting stuff in those songs.

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Reply #20 posted 01/12/19 12:37pm

ISaidLifeIsJus
tAGame

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Amazing!

fabriziovenerandi said:

Underneath Underneath the Cream

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Reply #21 posted 01/12/19 1:13pm

fabriziovenera
ndi

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ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Amazing!

fabriziovenerandi said:

Underneath Underneath the Cream

Even This Could Be Us is very nice.

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Reply #22 posted 01/14/19 11:02am

3stori3s

fabriziovenerandi said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Amazing!

Even This Could Be Us is very nice.

Got a link to that one?

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Reply #23 posted 01/14/19 11:03am

3stori3s

bonatoc said:


eek


Wow.
Thank you for this. Impressive (as "usual").

I've been trying to resist, because it's irrelevant to the thread, but I have to know what you meant by the (as "usual") part of your comment... particularly the quotes. The intrigue is killin me, bon.

[Edited 1/14/19 11:08am]

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Reply #24 posted 01/14/19 11:16am

jazzz

Had more or less a similar experience in the 80s when one channel failed while listening to Pop Life. I thought, WTF, why is Prince suddenly singing behind the beat so much... I was too young to understand immediately that this was the result of a strange, yet very creative way of recording. Just one of the many examples where Prince learned me a lot about music, art and individuality
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Reply #25 posted 01/14/19 11:18am

jazzz

o yes, and I forgot to tell about the time I played back the Love or $ vinyl single at 33rpm by mistake. Not a mistake at all, it sounded reaaaly funky. Like Sly Stone junior 😃
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Reply #26 posted 01/15/19 5:00am

fabriziovenera
ndi

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3stori3s said:

fabriziovenerandi said:

Even This Could Be Us is very nice.

Got a link to that one?

I create it now.

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Reply #27 posted 01/15/19 5:24am

fabriziovenera
ndi

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fabriziovenerandi said:

3stori3s said:

Got a link to that one?

I create it now.

Underneath This could be us.

.

I really love the 3:10-3:40

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Reply #28 posted 01/15/19 6:20am

fabriziovenera
ndi

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fabriziovenerandi said:

fabriziovenerandi said:

I create it now.

Underneath This could be us.

.

I really love the 3:10-3:40

.

Ok, Warner Bros disabled 40 second in the second half... sorry.

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Reply #29 posted 01/15/19 6:29pm

bonatoc

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3stori3s said:

bonatoc said:


eek


Wow.
Thank you for this. Impressive (as "usual").

I've been trying to resist, because it's irrelevant to the thread,
but I have to know what you meant by the (as "usual") part of your comment... particularly the quotes. The intrigue is killin me, bon.


Resistance is futile. All org threads become irrelevant in time.
For more pseudo-philosophical bullshit, press one.

Sorry for the supposed mistery, there was no double-entendre: I meant impressive is what Prince's standard is.
Even the lamest Prince song is impeccably crafted/interpreted/performed.
Usually (Oops, I Did It Again) the only complaints one can have about a Prince song is
the composition (chords progression) being too simplistic, or the sound being too artificial (plastic).
But the commitment in the playing will always ooze from the speakers, whatever the era.
Prince could overdub the phone book, it would still be interesting.

It's very rare for a Prince song to be entirely devoided of quality.
There are a few, but reconcile this dozen with the gigantic amount of recordings and you get zilch.
They're more like failed experiments than total wrecks, probably caused by too much insularity, possibly too much sleep deprivation.
But who are we to judge? Any pop musician feels like a bozo compared to the man.
He's entitled to a lot more misjudgments in my book: that would make him at least a little closer to us mere musicians.
Writing a good (heck, "decent") pop song ain't no piece of cake. Those who try can testify. It's a full-time job or nothing.

This is what Clare Fischer or Golden Era obsessed don't get: Prince was into songwriting.
Most of the time, he sticks to the verse/chorus/bridge structure. He's into perfecting the wheel rather than reinventing it.
He did freeform, complex arrangements, hypnotic jams, but in the end, he returned to the Power of the Holy Jukebox.
A song. Something you can hum along.
"I always take a simple thing and push it way too far".
Very few phrases describe Prince's late credo so accurately.

He got humble with time, a quality that's omnipresent in Hit'n'Run II and AOA, despite the minutiae in the arrangements.
He's doing a lot with very little. This apparent simplicity is also at work all over 20Ten, which makes it a fantastic album to rediscover.
The heroes of the 50's almost never deviated from the classic rock'n'roll structure, not because they were lazy,
but because they wanted to attain the purest form of the primal feeling. Sort of a zen quest.
Near the end of his career, so did Prince with his own idiosyncracies.

The moment you cease the meaningless comparison between "1999" and "Lavaux",
the latter suddenly stands out and shines as the joyful, simple, powerful statement it is.

The riff is not about the apocalypse anymore. It's June's last day of school. Summer vacation has arrived.
Next to this little gem slicing sunrays in rainbows, Madonna's "Holiday" looks like a dumb refrain
unsuited for children above eight, and this poor tired routine gets older with each passing year.
Whereas "Lavaux", damn, I will still be humming that shit as they put me in the grave.


The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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