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Thread started 07/03/19 1:53am

purplecream312
1

Was Prince a homophobe or disapprove of lgbt relationships?

More than one person in my circles has pointed out that Prince being a JV witness meant he disapproved of lgbt relationships and some of views are made clear in some of his lyrics such as the track Da Bourgeoisie, and the infamous interview where he said he believes what is written in the bible.

Yet Prince still played on shows like Ellen and continued to have a professional relationship with Wendy Melvoin...so what was Princes stance on the matter? Do lgbt community feel uncomfortable listening to Prince?



*****
[Folks, please stay on topic. This is not a religion or religious topic thread. If you want to talk religion/bible, etc. then it's best if you start a thread over in the P & R forum. This poor thread turned into a derailed train wreck. It's a shame a few tried to ruin a good discussion. - luv4u]



lurking
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Reply #1 posted 07/03/19 4:58am

Empress

I don't believe that Prince was a homophobe. It's fairly clear to me that he was trying very hard to fit in the JW religion by making silly comments about sexuality and changing lyrics to his songs. It became very clear to me as time went by that Prince was not a full fledged JW as he could not maintain some of the beliefs that are required. We all know he was very liberal with his sexuality and no matter how hard he tried to be a JW, he just never fit in. Just my opinion.
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Reply #2 posted 07/03/19 6:15am

PurpleSpirit31
9

I think I read in one of the many bios that during the Revolution days he told Wendy & Lisa that they would go to Hell because of their gay lifestyle, yet he still kept them in the band!!

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Reply #3 posted 07/03/19 6:21am

ThatWhiteDude

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PurpleSpirit319 said:

I think I read in one of the many bios that during the Revolution days he told Wendy & Lisa that they would go to Hell because of their gay lifestyle, yet he still kept them in the band!!

wasn't that when he became a jehovas witness? I remember Wendy saying that she doesn't have contact with him anymore cause o the way he thinks of her and lisa's homosexuality.

But the main point is, what he said about wendy and lisa was homophobic and definitely one thing in Prince history I hate. I only hope he changed his fews during the last years of his life.

[Edited 7/3/19 6:22am]

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."


"Extra cheese, extra HAM, extra bullshit" -DiminutiveRocker
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Reply #4 posted 07/03/19 6:45am

SoftSkarlettLo
visa

I don't think he was, in the early days. Based on his performances (e.g. Dirty Mind, Lovesexy), he might have approved of gender-fluid people.

He did have some homoerotic content in his Gett Off video and MTV performance (both make and female), the all-woman nude bath in the beginning of the 3 Chains O' Gold video. There is a suggestion of lesbian bath sex in the Computer Blue song with Wendy's and Lisa's opening dialogue.
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Reply #5 posted 07/03/19 6:45am

DarkKnight1

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Depends on the year.

(Insert something clever here)
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Reply #6 posted 07/03/19 6:50am

ThatWhiteDude

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SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

I don't think he was, in the early days. Based on his performances (e.g. Dirty Mind, Lovesexy), he might have approved of gender-fluid people. He did have some homoerotic content in his Gett Off video and MTV performance (both make and female), the all-woman nude bath in the beginning of the 3 Chains O' Gold video. There is a suggestion of lesbian bath sex in the Computer Blue song with Wendy's and Lisa's opening dialogue.

This shouldn't be news, but might be to you. One of my cousins is kinda homophobic towards male homosexuals but has absolutely no problem with lesbians. Cause in his words, "he likes p***y too. So two women having sex might turn him on.

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."


"Extra cheese, extra HAM, extra bullshit" -DiminutiveRocker
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Reply #7 posted 07/03/19 7:00am

NouveauDance

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SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

I don't think he was, in the early days. Based on his performances (e.g. Dirty Mind, Lovesexy), he might have approved of gender-fluid people. He did have some homoerotic content in his Gett Off video and MTV performance (both make and female), the all-woman nude bath in the beginning of the 3 Chains O' Gold video. There is a suggestion of lesbian bath sex in the Computer Blue song with Wendy's and Lisa's opening dialogue.

Lesbian themes for the male gaze and entertainment are not pro-LGBT, they're just porn. His thing with MFF threesomes (D&P, Twinz, Shiela & Cat etc) was just playing out of his own fantasies - which there is nothing wrong with - but it wasn't a progressive view on polyamoury or bisexuality to any stretch of the imagination. Prince projected a player image, but any woman who stepped out on him became a 'do-wrong woman' in his songs. I think Prince approved of his own gender fluidity, but not necessarily anyone elses.

.

Prince expressed views later in his life that were very closed-minded and backwards on all kinds of issues from women's rights, LGBT, religious freedoms etc. At the same time he also expressed opinions of female empowerment and pro-religious fluidity. He always projected mixed-up and conflicting opinions, but some things cannot be forgiven, even if said in a cloudy haze.

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Reply #8 posted 07/03/19 7:05am

mediumdry

well said, NouveauDance.

.

To make matters worse, as far as I remember, he not only mentioned W&L would go to hell because of them being lesbians, it was also because of being jewish and he told her/them he hoped they'd convert to christianity.

<Edit: I remember reading about this distinctly, but have been on a search for it for hours now but cannot find it. I may have misremembered and combined different stories. So for now I take it back, as I cannot back that claim up. Apologies if I offended anyone.>

[Edited 7/3/19 8:28am]

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Reply #9 posted 07/03/19 7:10am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

ThatWhiteDude said:

PurpleSpirit319 said:

I think I read in one of the many bios that during the Revolution days he told Wendy & Lisa that they would go to Hell because of their gay lifestyle, yet he still kept them in the band!!

wasn't that when he became a jehovas witness? I remember Wendy saying that she doesn't have contact with him anymore cause o the way he thinks of her and lisa's homosexuality.

But the main point is, what he said about wendy and lisa was homophobic and definitely one thing in Prince history I hate. I only hope he changed his fews during the last years of his life.

[Edited 7/3/19 6:22am]

It was during the 80s. I think it was more of a 'let me say something that will get your really angry' comment

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
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Reply #10 posted 07/03/19 7:13am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

I don't think he was, in the early days. Based on his performances (e.g. Dirty Mind, Lovesexy), he might have approved of gender-fluid people. He did have some homoerotic content in his Gett Off video and MTV performance (both make and female), the all-woman nude bath in the beginning of the 3 Chains O' Gold video. There is a suggestion of lesbian bath sex in the Computer Blue song with Wendy's and Lisa's opening dialogue.

The CLUB is THROBBING. Prince is
onstage, stripped to the waist, SWEAT
seeping from his pores in torrents.
He's deep into the pit of "Computer
Blue, " locked into a provocative,
obscene graphic with Wendy. She's on her
knees in front of him, his crotch moving
directly in front of her lips. She's
made up fiercely, looks like Prince
himself. The total effect is unnerving
-- Prince is going down on himself.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #11 posted 07/03/19 7:14am

ThatWhiteDude

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NouveauDance said:

SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

I don't think he was, in the early days. Based on his performances (e.g. Dirty Mind, Lovesexy), he might have approved of gender-fluid people. He did have some homoerotic content in his Gett Off video and MTV performance (both make and female), the all-woman nude bath in the beginning of the 3 Chains O' Gold video. There is a suggestion of lesbian bath sex in the Computer Blue song with Wendy's and Lisa's opening dialogue.

Lesbian themes for the male gaze and entertainment are not pro-LGBT, they're just porn. His thing with MFF threesomes (D&P, Twinz, Shiela & Cat etc) was just playing out of his own fantasies - which there is nothing wrong with - but it wasn't a progressive view on polyamoury or bisexuality to any stretch of the imagination. Prince projected a player image, but any woman who stepped out on him became a 'do-wrong woman' in his songs. I think Prince approved of his own gender fluidity, but not necessarily anyone elses.

.

Prince expressed views later in his life that were very closed-minded and backwards on all kinds of issues from women's rights, LGBT, religious freedoms etc. At the same time he also expressed opinions of female empowerment and pro-religious fluidity. He always projected mixed-up and conflicting opinions, but some things cannot be forgiven, even if said in a cloudy haze.

Exactly.

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."


"Extra cheese, extra HAM, extra bullshit" -DiminutiveRocker
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Reply #12 posted 07/03/19 7:15am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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NouveauDance said:

SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

I don't think he was, in the early days. Based on his performances (e.g. Dirty Mind, Lovesexy), he might have approved of gender-fluid people. He did have some homoerotic content in his Gett Off video and MTV performance (both make and female), the all-woman nude bath in the beginning of the 3 Chains O' Gold video. There is a suggestion of lesbian bath sex in the Computer Blue song with Wendy's and Lisa's opening dialogue.

Lesbian themes for the male gaze and entertainment are not pro-LGBT, they're just porn. His thing with MFF threesomes (D&P, Twinz, Shiela & Cat etc) was just playing out of his own fantasies - which there is nothing wrong with - but it wasn't a progressive view on polyamoury or bisexuality to any stretch of the imagination. Prince projected a player image, but any woman who stepped out on him became a 'do-wrong woman' in his songs. I think Prince approved of his own gender fluidity, but not necessarily anyone elses.

.

Prince expressed views later in his life that were very closed-minded and backwards on all kinds of issues from women's rights, LGBT, religious freedoms etc. At the same time he also expressed opinions of female empowerment and pro-religious fluidity. He always projected mixed-up and conflicting opinions, but some things cannot be forgiven, even if said in a cloudy haze.

This is very true, good points

In that 2009 interview he did talk about 'god saw people sticking it everywhere and said enough...'

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #13 posted 07/03/19 7:18am

rogifan

I never understood this notion that for Prince to be JW he had to follow every single belief/tenant of that faith. I’m sure there are lots of Catholics who don’t support every aspect of the church and same with evangelicals and other faiths. Prince didn’t talk much about LGBT issues so all people can do is guess/infer.

When Jon Bream interviewed Prince and asked him about the Minnesota referendum on SSM (which passed 51/49) Prince said he didn’t want to talk about it. But that could have been simply him wanting to talk about music not politics or thinking that interview/situation wasn’t the right time to get in a discussion on it. I remember another interview he did with V magazine where he was asked questions about religion and the difference between women and men. He brushed those questions off too saying not enough time to discuss properly.

Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #14 posted 07/03/19 8:04am

sulls

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I kinda thought 'Da Bourgeosie' kinda summed up his current feelings. Maybe I'm wrong?

"I like to watch."
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Reply #15 posted 07/03/19 8:49am

steakfinger

Was Prince a homophobe or disapprove of lgbt relationships? They are the same thing, so the answer is yes.

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Reply #16 posted 07/03/19 9:20am

ISaidLifeIsJus
tAGame

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mediumdry said:

well said, NouveauDance.

.

To make matters worse, as far as I remember, he not only mentioned W&L would go to hell because of them being lesbians, it was also because of being jewish and he told her/them he hoped they'd convert to christianity.

<Edit: I remember reading about this distinctly, but have been on a search for it for hours now but cannot find it. I may have misremembered and combined different stories. So for now I take it back, as I cannot back that claim up. Apologies if I offended anyone.>



It's in this article:


http://www.startribune.com/the-life-of-prince-as-told-by-the-people-who-knew-him/376586581/




WENDY MELVOIN: We tried to put together a [Revolution] reunion tour in 2000, and he declined because of my homosexuality and the fact I’m half-Jewish. It came back: Go have a press conference denouncing your homosexuality and that you’re converting to Jehovah. I was like: I guess we’ll never hear from him again. And I had to kind of mourn him. It was devastating to think we’ve kind of lost him.

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Reply #17 posted 07/03/19 9:27am

AvocadosMax

Prince? Homophobic?
*Morris Day laugh*
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Reply #18 posted 07/03/19 9:29am

NouveauDance

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rogifan said:

I never understood this notion that for Prince to be JW he had to follow every single belief/tenant of that faith. I’m sure there are lots of Catholics who don’t support every aspect of the church and same with evangelicals and other faiths. Prince didn’t talk much about LGBT issues so all people can do is guess/infer.

When Jon Bream interviewed Prince and asked him about the Minnesota referendum on SSM (which passed 51/49) Prince said he didn’t want to talk about it. But that could have been simply him wanting to talk about music not politics or thinking that interview/situation wasn’t the right time to get in a discussion on it. I remember another interview he did with V magazine where he was asked questions about religion and the difference between women and men. He brushed those questions off too saying not enough time to discuss properly.

You're selectively ignoring other interviews where he explicitly stated his views at the time on all these things. "This one time he said "no comment"" doesn't cut it in face of other times where he did comment.

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Reply #19 posted 07/03/19 9:36am

AvocadosMax

Prince had his personal beliefs. He didn’t cut people from work just because they were gay, so I don’t see how he had a phobia towards homosexuals. His two finest musicians were gay and although he may have opened up to them on his opinion, he didn’t verbally abuse them or ruin their lives in any way.
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Reply #20 posted 07/03/19 9:37am

soladeo1

Prince had a cultural conservatism pretty common amongst older, religious, African-American men. Its the same way that Mayor Pete is polling at like 0% right now amongst AA Democratic primary voters.

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Reply #21 posted 07/03/19 9:38am

jfenster

steakfinger said:

Was Prince a homophobe or disapprove of lgbt relationships? They are the same thing, so the answer is yes.

so u can disapprove of lgbt relationships AND be a homophobe...i think u be wrong

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Reply #22 posted 07/03/19 9:40am

ThatWhiteDude

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AvocadosMax said:

Prince had his personal beliefs. He didn’t cut people from work just because they were gay, so I don’t see how he had a phobia towards homosexuals. His two finest musicians were gay and although he may have opened up to them on his opinion, he didn’t verbally abuse them or ruin their lives in any way.

What the hell? He didn't need to say f****t or any other slur to be homophobic. What he said to Wendy is enough proof to say that he was homophobic.

That being said, we have no real indicator that Prince was NOT homophobic, but we have some indication that he was. I don't care how some want to twist it, it is what it is.

[Edited 7/3/19 9:42am]

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."


"Extra cheese, extra HAM, extra bullshit" -DiminutiveRocker
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Reply #23 posted 07/03/19 10:05am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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jfenster said:

steakfinger said:

Was Prince a homophobe or disapprove of lgbt relationships? They are the same thing, so the answer is yes.

so u can disapprove of lgbt relationships AND be a homophobe...i think u be wrong

once you understand the reason of the disapproval then you understand the level of homophobia

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #24 posted 07/03/19 10:08am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

mediumdry said:

well said, NouveauDance.

.

To make matters worse, as far as I remember, he not only mentioned W&L would go to hell because of them being lesbians, it was also because of being jewish and he told her/them he hoped they'd convert to christianity.

<Edit: I remember reading about this distinctly, but have been on a search for it for hours now but cannot find it. I may have misremembered and combined different stories. So for now I take it back, as I cannot back that claim up. Apologies if I offended anyone.>



It's in this article:


http://www.startribune.com/the-life-of-prince-as-told-by-the-people-who-knew-him/376586581/




WENDY MELVOIN: We tried to put together a [Revolution] reunion tour in 2000, and he declined because of my homosexuality and the fact I’m half-Jewish. It came back: Go have a press conference denouncing your homosexuality and that you’re converting to Jehovah. I was like: I guess we’ll never hear from him again. And I had to kind of mourn him. It was devastating to think we’ve kind of lost him.

That always makes me laugh... uh Jewish people are because of Jehovah, and _ are because of Jewish peoples connection to Jehovah

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #25 posted 07/03/19 10:40am

VaultCurator

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Ok, so in summary... An effeminate man, with a flamboyant fashion sense, who frequently wore high heels, who changed his name to a symbol that incorporated both genders, had a candidly open and liberal worldview when it came to sexuality, has been famously depicted sitting naked on an orchid, and released an album called The Rainbow Children, turned out to have a problem with gay people.

Yeah, Prince was a bit odd.
The message you're about to hear is not meant for transmission
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Reply #26 posted 07/03/19 10:49am

rogifan

NouveauDance said:

rogifan said:

I never understood this notion that for Prince to be JW he had to follow every single belief/tenant of that faith. I’m sure there are lots of Catholics who don’t support every aspect of the church and same with evangelicals and other faiths. Prince didn’t talk much about LGBT issues so all people can do is guess/infer.

When Jon Bream interviewed Prince and asked him about the Minnesota referendum on SSM (which passed 51/49) Prince said he didn’t want to talk about it. But that could have been simply him wanting to talk about music not politics or thinking that interview/situation wasn’t the right time to get in a discussion on it. I remember another interview he did with V magazine where he was asked questions about religion and the difference between women and men. He brushed those questions off too saying not enough time to discuss properly.

You're selectively ignoring other interviews where he explicitly stated his views at the time on all these things. "This one time he said "no comment"" doesn't cut it in face of other times where he did comment.


He comments on LGBT community/issues good or bad were far and few between. I won’t say the guy was a-political but compared to a lot of celebrities who mouth off on everything he certainly was.

Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #27 posted 07/03/19 10:53am

Genesia

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ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

mediumdry said:

well said, NouveauDance.

.

To make matters worse, as far as I remember, he not only mentioned W&L would go to hell because of them being lesbians, it was also because of being jewish and he told her/them he hoped they'd convert to christianity.

<Edit: I remember reading about this distinctly, but have been on a search for it for hours now but cannot find it. I may have misremembered and combined different stories. So for now I take it back, as I cannot back that claim up. Apologies if I offended anyone.>



It's in this article:


http://www.startribune.com/the-life-of-prince-as-told-by-the-people-who-knew-him/376586581/




WENDY MELVOIN: We tried to put together a [Revolution] reunion tour in 2000, and he declined because of my homosexuality and the fact I’m half-Jewish. It came back: Go have a press conference denouncing your homosexuality and that you’re converting to Jehovah. I was like: I guess we’ll never hear from him again. And I had to kind of mourn him. It was devastating to think we’ve kind of lost him.


And sometimes, people use their religion as an excuse to cover for the fact that they wouldn't want to do something under any circumstances. Prince was never, ever going to do a Revolution reunion.

Put more simply, why would Prince be a homophobe in 2000, but not in 1984? That makes no sense. In fact, it could be reasonably argued that he played UP Wendy and Lisa's relationship during their time in the Revolution.

The anti-semitism is another subject (see The Rainbow Children). But again, he had Jewish folks working with/for him at pretty much every stage of his career. So which was the true Prince?

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
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Reply #28 posted 07/03/19 10:55am

EmmaMcG

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Whether he was homophobic or not is irrelevant to me. I'm bisexual and have had more relationships with women than men (I'm married to a man now though) and I've always leaned ever so slightly towards full on lesbianism in that I find women typically to be more attractive than men. That being said, Prince could be the biggest homophobe in the world and it wouldn't change my opinion on his music. I don't need his or anyone else's approval.


Besides, lesbianism would be the least of my sins so I'm sure that even if he wasn't homophobic he would still have found other reasons to dislike me.
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Reply #29 posted 07/03/19 10:56am

Genesia

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VaultCurator said:

Ok, so in summary... An effeminate man, with a flamboyant fashion sense, who frequently wore high heels, who changed his name to a symbol that incorporated both genders, had a candidly open and liberal worldview when it came to sexuality, has been famously depicted sitting naked on an orchid, and released an album called The Rainbow Children, turned out to have a problem with gay people. Yeah, Prince was a bit odd.


To paraphrase Howard Wolowitz (The Big Bang Theory): That crazy bastard was looking at odd in the rear view mirror.

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
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