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Thread started 11/13/19 1:23am

yello1

'Batman' composer Danny Elfman says turning down Prince was 'biggest, most stressful gamble' of his career

Interview with Danny Elfman:

https://www.yahoo.com/ent...51834.html

[Edited 11/13/19 1:24am]

[Edited 11/13/19 1:25am]

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Reply #1 posted 11/13/19 1:45am

WhisperingDand
elions

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Good for Danny, He was right. Even now as a massive Prince fan adult I still find Prince's original songs as ill-fitting to that film as I did as a child unfamilar with Prince sitting in the theater. Whereas Danny Elfman's score fit that version of Batman like a glove from the very first note.
.
Unquestionably Danny's theme for Batman is the defining musical moment of that movie and is as iconic and timeless-sounding to this date. Elfman had just begun a creative zenith with his Batman while, let's face it, Prince's Batman uhhh... wasn't.

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Reply #2 posted 11/13/19 3:08am

RODSERLING

WhisperingDandelions said:

Good for Danny, He was right. Even now as a massive Prince fan adult I still find Prince's original songs as ill-fitting to that film as I did as a child unfamilar with Prince sitting in the theater. Whereas Danny Elfman's score fit that version of Batman like a glove from the very first note.
.
Unquestionably Danny's theme for Batman is the defining musical moment of that movie and is as iconic and timeless-sounding to this date. Elfman had just begun a creative zenith with his Batman while, let's face it, Prince's Batman uhhh... wasn't.



Nonsense.

Batman is a great album in itself, and an excellent soundtrack to this movie. It adds more depth to the characters
Both soundtracks cohabites very well in this movie.
[Edited 11/13/19 3:12am]
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Reply #3 posted 11/13/19 3:12am

EmmaMcG

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WhisperingDandelions said:

Good for Danny, He was right. Even now as a massive Prince fan adult I still find Prince's original songs as ill-fitting to that film as I did as a child unfamilar with Prince sitting in the theater. Whereas Danny Elfman's score fit that version of Batman like a glove from the very first note.
.
Unquestionably Danny's theme for Batman is the defining musical moment of that movie and is as iconic and timeless-sounding to this date. Elfman had just begun a creative zenith with his Batman while, let's face it, Prince's Batman uhhh... wasn't.



I thought that Partyman and Trust were used to good effect. They suited the Joker although I would have preferred 200 Balloons over Trust for that scene.

I agree 100% about Danny Elfman's Batman theme though. I'd even go one step further and suggest that it should be used in all future Batman movies, similar to how the James Bond theme is used in the Bond movies.
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Reply #4 posted 11/13/19 3:56am

WhisperingDand
elions

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RODSERLING said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

Good for Danny, He was right. Even now as a massive Prince fan adult I still find Prince's original songs as ill-fitting to that film as I did as a child unfamilar with Prince sitting in the theater. Whereas Danny Elfman's score fit that version of Batman like a glove from the very first note.
.
Unquestionably Danny's theme for Batman is the defining musical moment of that movie and is as iconic and timeless-sounding to this date. Elfman had just begun a creative zenith with his Batman while, let's face it, Prince's Batman uhhh... wasn't.

Nonsense. Batman is a great album in itself, and an excellent soundtrack to this movie. It adds more depth to the characters Both soundtracks cohabites very well in this movie. [Edited 11/13/19 3:12am]

Great album, you say? Where does it rank among Prince's other greats to you?

.

And how did it add depth to the characters..? Repurposed Anna Fantastic songs "written from" the perspective of Vicki Vale? They were by-the-numbers Prince songs with zero alteration in tone or approach to fit or accomodate Tim Burton's vision on any level. "Joker" songs sound like Prince songs, "Bruce Wayne" songs sound like Prince songs... The only song that screamed "dark take on Batman/Joker" he cut from the record.... okay "The Future" was great but that hinders my argument.
.
Otherwise you got Elfman on one hand, re-defining the superhero genre with his foreboding shadowy motifs, and Prince doing a techno-dance remix of the 1960s Adam West Batussi neon-Pow! sign Batman theme on the other. It's like those standardized tests where they give you four choices and you have to pick the one that doesn't fit with the others.... you may like all the choices, but c'mon... if it don't fit with the rest....

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Reply #5 posted 11/13/19 4:14am

feeluupp

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Didn't Scandalous incorporate some of Danny's score in the song? If not that is a perfect example how well that song fit the theme and mood of the film.

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Reply #6 posted 11/13/19 4:19am

WhisperingDand
elions

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feeluupp said:

Didn't Scandalous incorporate some of Danny's score in the song? If not that is a perfect example how well that song fit the theme and mood of the film.

I thought it was the complete opposite. According to PrinceVault it was Danny who incorporated "Scandalous" in his compositions, not the other way around. Similar to how Burton made room for "The Future" lowly in the background. Reading Elfman's interview these were all probably studio edicts.

[Edited 11/13/19 4:20am]

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Reply #7 posted 11/13/19 4:30am

jaawwnn

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I have no evidence to back it up but the impression I get is that Prince was trying to write himself into the film with the Gemini character and the videos, I kind of wish some kind of straight-to-video official offshoot had been made with him and the actors.

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Reply #8 posted 11/13/19 6:54am

EmmaMcG

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jaawwnn said:

I have no evidence to back it up but the impression I get is that Prince was trying to write himself into the film with the Gemini character and the videos, I kind of wish some kind of straight-to-video official offshoot had been made with him and the actors.



Given Prince's acting ability, or lack thereof, I'm glad that didn't happen.
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Reply #9 posted 11/13/19 7:30am

Poplife88

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I agree Danny made the right move here.

I think of that movie I think of his score, not the Prince songs.

However I still think Batdance is brilliant on its own and 200 Balloons would've been better during the parade scene.

We're gonna need a bigger boat
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Reply #10 posted 11/13/19 9:19am

ludwig

Danny Elfman "borrowed" heavily from Gottfried Huppertz' soundtrack for "Die Nibelungen" for his Batman theme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmG-ozPW6S4&t=597s

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Reply #11 posted 11/13/19 11:02am

dodger

EmmaMcG said:

jaawwnn said:

I have no evidence to back it up but the impression I get is that Prince was trying to write himself into the film with the Gemini character and the videos, I kind of wish some kind of straight-to-video official offshoot had been made with him and the actors.



Given Prince's acting ability, or lack thereof, I'm glad that didn't happen.


lol he was good in the Partyman and Batdance videos so he could have possibly been one of the Joker's crew.
.
I've always thought Dance With The Devil should have been used somewhere in the film
[Edited 11/13/19 11:02am]
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Reply #12 posted 11/13/19 11:30am

jdcxc

Elfman limiting Prince’s songwriting scope to “funky-feel stuff” is ridiculous and slightly racist.

I recall hearing one Prince engineer state, there is nothing musically that Prince couldn’t do. Batman would’ve been different with P handling the score, but it could’ve also been interesting.
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Reply #13 posted 11/13/19 11:42am

skywalker

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jdcxc said:

Elfman limiting Prince’s songwriting scope to “funky-feel stuff” is ridiculous and slightly racist. I recall hearing one Prince engineer state, there is nothing musically that Prince couldn’t do. Batman would’ve been different with P handling the score, but it could’ve also been interesting.

Agreed.

What gets left out of the story is this: Danny Elfman composed this music, but he was not the conductor. Shirley Walker (who later scored Batman: Animated Series) did some of the heavy lifting when it came to the score for Batman. Without a doubt, Prince had the musical chops to write a score and have some one else conduct the orchestra.

"New Power slide...."
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Reply #14 posted 11/13/19 11:54am

TheGloved1

Danny Elfman ripped off Prince for The Nightmare Before Christmas, which was also directed by Tim Burton. The song "This Is Halloween" sounds a lot like the unreleased Prince track "Dance With The Devil"
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Reply #15 posted 11/13/19 12:26pm

LoveGalore

skywalker said:



jdcxc said:


Elfman limiting Prince’s songwriting scope to “funky-feel stuff” is ridiculous and slightly racist. I recall hearing one Prince engineer state, there is nothing musically that Prince couldn’t do. Batman would’ve been different with P handling the score, but it could’ve also been interesting.


Agreed.



What gets left out of the story is this: Danny Elfman composed this music, but he was not the conductor. Shirley Walker (who later scored Batman: Animated Series) did some of the heavy lifting when it came to the score for Batman. Without a doubt, Prince had the musical chops to write a score and have some one else conduct the orchestra.



We already have an example of Prince writing music for an orchestra in Kama Sutra. This is written for a ballet, but it is still funky-feel stuff.

I am not convinced Prince could've matched the vibe of the by then typical relationship between Elfman and Burton.
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Reply #16 posted 11/13/19 12:30pm

SoulAlive

jdcxc said:

Elfman limiting Prince’s songwriting scope to “funky-feel stuff” is ridiculous and slightly racist. I recall hearing one Prince engineer state, there is nothing musically that Prince couldn’t do. Batman would’ve been different with P handling the score, but it could’ve also been interesting.

I agree.

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Reply #17 posted 11/13/19 12:36pm

SoulAlive

RODSERLING said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

Good for Danny, He was right. Even now as a massive Prince fan adult I still find Prince's original songs as ill-fitting to that film as I did as a child unfamilar with Prince sitting in the theater. Whereas Danny Elfman's score fit that version of Batman like a glove from the very first note.
.
Unquestionably Danny's theme for Batman is the defining musical moment of that movie and is as iconic and timeless-sounding to this date. Elfman had just begun a creative zenith with his Batman while, let's face it, Prince's Batman uhhh... wasn't.

Nonsense. Batman is a great album in itself, and an excellent soundtrack to this movie. It adds more depth to the characters Both soundtracks cohabites very well in this movie.

honestly,I find Prince's "Batdance" (the song and the video) to be the best,most exciting thing about the whole Batman movie.

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Reply #18 posted 11/13/19 12:53pm

jdcxc

skywalker said:



jdcxc said:


Elfman limiting Prince’s songwriting scope to “funky-feel stuff” is ridiculous and slightly racist. I recall hearing one Prince engineer state, there is nothing musically that Prince couldn’t do. Batman would’ve been different with P handling the score, but it could’ve also been interesting.


Agreed.



What gets left out of the story is this: Danny Elfman composed this music, but he was not the conductor. Shirley Walker (who later scored Batman: Animated Series) did some of the heavy lifting when it came to the score for Batman. Without a doubt, Prince had the musical chops to write a score and have some one else conduct the orchestra.



Interesting tidbit. If Prince can hang with Miles Davis, he can hang with Oingo Boingo Danny Elfman.

I read an interesting tidbit about 19 year old Prince in a room with a full orchestra directing them at ease, for his debut album. The material was never used.
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Reply #19 posted 11/13/19 1:05pm

Graycap23

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Any time U can book Prince.......U book Prince.

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #20 posted 11/13/19 2:03pm

poppys

Graycap23 said:

Any time U can book Prince.......U book Prince.

True dat.

politics: the art or science of government.
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Reply #21 posted 11/13/19 2:55pm

herb4

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WhisperingDandelions said:

Good for Danny, He was right. Even now as a massive Prince fan adult I still find Prince's original songs as ill-fitting to that film as I did as a child unfamilar with Prince sitting in the theater. Whereas Danny Elfman's score fit that version of Batman like a glove from the very first note.
.
Unquestionably Danny's theme for Batman is the defining musical moment of that movie and is as iconic and timeless-sounding to this date. Elfman had just begun a creative zenith with his Batman while, let's face it, Prince's Batman uhhh... wasn't.


Agree with this.

I love(d) Prince and Batman and was way hyped for the film but even back then I didn't think it really fit, either when it was announced or when they were released. The album is OK. THe movie is OK. But neither one really lent anything to the other that couldn't have been acheived without them. Assuming I worded that right.

Elfman's contribution was much more effective.

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Reply #22 posted 11/13/19 3:00pm

herb4

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jaawwnn said:

I have no evidence to back it up but the impression I get is that Prince was trying to write himself into the film with the Gemini character and the videos, I kind of wish some kind of straight-to-video official offshoot had been made with him and the actors.


Prince was trying to cash an easy check. He needed the money after the Lovesexy tour and it was easy money. Not saying I blame him and I like several tracks on the record but it's not great. I don't even think "Partyman" sticks the landing in the movie and felt that it was kind of shoehorned.

WB and everyone else were making mad stacks in 1989 off this thing so there was no reason for Prince not to make a dime but, tbh, it was the first time I caught a whiff of him doing something just for the cash.

As far as his acting, I think he could pull it off in the right role. Always thought he'd have been much better than Johnny Depp as Willy Wonka for instance.

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Reply #23 posted 11/13/19 3:40pm

Graycap23

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poppys said:

Graycap23 said:

Any time U can book Prince.......U book Prince.

True dat.

I'm a big fan of Danny's talent but if I'm having 2 choose between him or Prince there is no contest.

I'm rolling w Prince 10/10 times.

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #24 posted 11/13/19 4:44pm

TheBoneRanger

The movie sucks, Elfman's score is adequate, and Prince's album is brilliant. So are all of his related Batman remixes and non album tracks, especially the Scandalous Sex Suite guitar solo.

Hi-yo Silver, it's The Bone Ranger!
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Reply #25 posted 11/13/19 9:06pm

Germanegro

TheBoneRanger said:

The movie sucks, Elfman's score is adequate, and Prince's album is brilliant. So are all of his related Batman remixes and non album tracks, especially the Scandalous Sex Suite guitar solo.


^^^Thank U! Bingo, IMO.
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Reply #26 posted 11/13/19 11:01pm

RODSERLING

feeluupp said:

Didn't Scandalous incorporate some of Danny's score in the song? If not that is a perfect example how well that song fit the theme and mood of the film.





Scandalous is of course a Prince song.
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Reply #27 posted 11/13/19 11:14pm

RODSERLING

SoulAlive said:



RODSERLING said:


WhisperingDandelions said:

Good for Danny, He was right. Even now as a massive Prince fan adult I still find Prince's original songs as ill-fitting to that film as I did as a child unfamilar with Prince sitting in the theater. Whereas Danny Elfman's score fit that version of Batman like a glove from the very first note.
.
Unquestionably Danny's theme for Batman is the defining musical moment of that movie and is as iconic and timeless-sounding to this date. Elfman had just begun a creative zenith with his Batman while, let's face it, Prince's Batman uhhh... wasn't.



Nonsense. Batman is a great album in itself, and an excellent soundtrack to this movie. It adds more depth to the characters Both soundtracks cohabites very well in this movie.

honestly,I find Prince's "Batdance" (the song and the video) to be the best,most exciting thing about the whole Batman movie.



Scandalous is my favourite Prince song.
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Reply #28 posted 11/13/19 11:49pm

EmmaMcG

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TheGloved1 said:

Danny Elfman ripped off Prince for The Nightmare Before Christmas, which was also directed by Tim Burton. The song "This Is Halloween" sounds a lot like the unreleased Prince track "Dance With The Devil"


Tim Burton did not direct The Nightmare Before Christmas.
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Reply #29 posted 11/13/19 11:58pm

LoveGalore

EmmaMcG said:

TheGloved1 said:

Danny Elfman ripped off Prince for The Nightmare Before Christmas, which was also directed by Tim Burton. The song "This Is Halloween" sounds a lot like the unreleased Prince track "Dance With The Devil"


Tim Burton did not direct The Nightmare Before Christmas.


Facts.

Common mistake as it is produced by Tim Burton and Denise Di Novo (sp?) and their movies all have that same gothic-nouveau vibe.
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Forums > Prince: Music and More > 'Batman' composer Danny Elfman says turning down Prince was 'biggest, most stressful gamble' of his career