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Thread started 07/29/20 10:38am

Poplife88

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200 Balloons or Trust ?

If I remember correctly, Prince submitted 200 Balloons to be used in the parade scene in the movie. Burton didn't think it fit so Prince then submitted Trust, which we all know they used.

Did they make the right decision? I personally like 200 Balloons WAY more than Trust and think it would've worked better. AM I alone on this one?

We're gonna need a bigger boat
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Reply #1 posted 07/29/20 11:05am

GirlBrother

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I think Trust fits the scene better, but I prefer 200 Balloons as an actual song to listen to.

Trust kind of sounds like Copacabana by Barry Manilow, or something. It's just soooo cheesy and almost showtuney. lol

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Reply #2 posted 07/29/20 1:42pm

emesem

Trust is a must better song. But lets be honest, its a Baby I'm Star retread.

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Reply #3 posted 07/29/20 3:37pm

WhisperingDand
elions

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"200 Balloons" is a better song, but none of his contributions to Batman fit the film except for "The Future" and that one's wayyyyyy in the background.

Honestly I feel like Tim Burton was just being difficult since from what I've read it seems like WB kind of forced the Prince music on his film. He never seems particularly enthusiastic about the contributions from what I've gleaned.


[edit] Quick google search a la B0rt and I see he's addressed this directly. Turns out he is a fan, but my interpretation on his feeling of Prince music in the film was correct.

https://ultimateprince.co...im-burton/

Quick excerpts since I don't think we're supposed to post full articles (plz edit if this is bad too):

"I had just gone to see two of his concerts in London, and I felt they were like the best concerts I’d ever seen," he told Rolling Stone in 1992. He just didn't see it as a match for his movie.

.

But after apparently being pressured to have some form of pop music tie-in to help promote his first-ever big-budget studio franchise movie - "They’re saying to me, these record guys, it needs this and that, and they give you this whole thing about it’s an expensive movie so you need it"

.....

"It completely lost me," Burton told Rolling Stone about being forced to add Prince's songs to his movie. "And it tainted something that I don’t want to taint. Which is how you feel about an artist. And actually, I liked his album. I wish I could listen to it without the feel of what had happened."

[Edited 7/29/20 15:49pm]

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Reply #4 posted 07/29/20 4:07pm

GirlBrother

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WhisperingDandelions said:

"200 Balloons" is a better song, but none of his contributions to Batman fit the film except for "The Future" and that one's wayyyyyy in the background.

Someone should re-edit the movie, get rid of the Danny Elfman score, and use all the Prince album.

I'm guessing there's instrumental versions of all the songs in the vault.

I think the entire Batman album sounds like Batman to me. It's dark and moody, yet ridiculously colourful at times. The movie just didn't use the right songs in the right scenes.

Electric Chair was recorded a year before Prince got involved with the Batman movie, but it's kind of weird how the staccato chorus kind of sounds like the "BAT-MAN!"refrain from the old 60s TV show.

It's a crime that the song wasn't used heavily in the movie.

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Reply #5 posted 07/29/20 4:48pm

imprimis

"200 Balloons" by far. It was too indulgently Lovesexy-era Prince, it seems, to be used in the film. "Trust" is one of his laziest, paint-by-number offerings ever ("we need a song that serves the same role as 'Baby, I'm a Star'" ASAP).

.

[Edited 7/29/20 16:50pm]

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Reply #6 posted 07/29/20 6:54pm

SoulAlive

I was disappointed with how Prince’s music was used in the film.Only two songs can be heard clearly (“Partyman” and “Trust”).The director feels like he was “forced” to include the Prince songs,smh.
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Reply #7 posted 07/29/20 7:34pm

SoulAlive

as for “Trust” and “200 Balloons”.....I think both songs are just OK.
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Reply #8 posted 07/29/20 8:05pm

thedoorkeeper

Of the two songs I prefer 200 Ballons. cartman
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Reply #9 posted 07/29/20 8:56pm

TrivialPursuit

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"200 Balloons" is the better song. It's odd because although "Trust" replaced it, it's really a prototype for "Batdance."

"Trust" is great when he says, "My lawd!" and there's that little instrumental break. But the verses in "200 Balloons" are swangin'!

Both could work in the movie. Balloon is an obvious reference, as is "hubba hubba hubba, who do ya trust?" But it seems like "Trust" drives home the ultimate message of the sequence - the Joker building false hope. The balloons are just an element in the scene.

However, there could have been a clip of it on a radio or something when Batman stole the balloons. Maybe there's just another song in the background coming from one of the floats or something. Very underneath like "The Future" or "Electric Chair" was on the low.

Just on a song level - "200 Balloons."

Just when U think U've got more than enough, that's when it all up and flies away.
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Reply #10 posted 07/30/20 4:58am

ThePersian

Trust

The Earth is but one country and mankind its citizens.
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Reply #11 posted 07/30/20 5:05am

Poplife88

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I had no idea Burton wasn't on board with Prince being involved. I always thought it was because they were using Prince songs as placeholders in the museum and parade scenes, so Nicholson thought why don't we get Prince to put new songs there. Then Prince being Prince came back with an entire album.

Trust is such a boring song imo. It was one of the first times I remember thinking Prince was phoning it in on that one. But it does work for that scene, but still think 200 Balloons would've been better.

We're gonna need a bigger boat
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Reply #12 posted 07/30/20 5:49am

Hamad

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200 Balloons for sure, in an alternate world I could see Prince singing this as the joker.
Every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future...

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Reply #13 posted 07/30/20 6:39am

mtlfan

From a film perspective, Batman '89 is notable for consolidating corporate synergy into the blockbuster formula. What we know today as the contemporary blockbuster was a strategy that formed in the 1970s (Love Story, The Godfather, The Exorcist, Jaws, Star Wars). Star Wars repeated Jaws' successes (a summer release date, a saturation release all over the country, with a saturation ad campaign, cross market appeal, etc) but unlike those other movies it wasn't based on a pre-existing property (in the case of all the others, a hit novel). What Star Wars introduced to the blockbuster was extensive merchandising. Moreover, Twentieth Century Fox screwed up big time in this regard: George Lucas couldn't get a studio to greenlight Star Wars, but he was a hot director after American Graffiti, so he took a salary cut in exchange for: the right to "own" Star Wars and make all future sequels, and the rights to the merchandising. Whoops. Star Wars is easily the most lucrative single film franchise in history.

Flash-forward to 1989: nothing much had been done to improve the blockbuster formula since 1977, but WB wasn't about to make the same mistake as 20th C Fox with Batman. Unlike Star Wars, Batman was planned as a work of corporate synergy targetting ancillary markets: WB could only make so much money off a movie. It could make much more money off a movie, action figures, clothes, trading cards, putting Batman clips in Coke commercials, etc., oh, and not one, but two soundtracks. If you lived through 1989, you remember Batmania. There is no way a song as weird as Batdance would hit #1 without beign part of this manufatured zeitgeist. This was when a movie started to become designed as an advertisement for profitting in other arenas (to return to Star Wars, the pod race scene in the Phantom Menace was included so LucasArts could sell video games).

Pop soundtracks - not classical soundtracks, which nonetheless could be popular - had been an increasingly important Hollywood moneygrab since The Graduate and Simon & Garfunkel. So of course Batman was going to have a pop soundtrack forced onto it. I can understand Burton's frustration, but he signed on. Elfman's Batman theme is one of the two best themes from the whole superhero genre, and one of the best themes from 1980s movies. I think Batman gave Prince a fair shake: it solved some money problems, gave him a #1 hit, and sustained his career long term for a generation of kids who probably thought they didn't like Prince and then found out or remembered he made them dance around the living room to Party Man.

Tl:dr: I like both, Trust works well in the movie, 200 Balloons is the better song.

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Reply #14 posted 07/30/20 1:40pm

nayroo2002

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"Batdance" B/W "200 Balloons"

1989

AWESOME!!!!!!!

"Whatever skin Ur in
we all need 2 b friends"
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Reply #15 posted 07/30/20 3:31pm

kingricefan

I'm going to go with Trust on this one. Jack Nicholson used the 'salary cut' in exchange for a percentage of Batman merchandising. He made a sh*t-ton of bank from that deal and is probably still getting checks. I also remember reading that there were a couple of scenes written after production started just to give Jack more screen time (I'm thinking the museum destroying scene was one as it just feels like it is rushed, rather claustraphobic and not quite polished). Jack sure ain't a dummy.

mtlfan said:

From a film perspective, Batman '89 is notable for consolidating corporate synergy into the blockbuster formula. What we know today as the contemporary blockbuster was a strategy that formed in the 1970s (Love Story, The Godfather, The Exorcist, Jaws, Star Wars). Star Wars repeated Jaws' successes (a summer release date, a saturation release all over the country, with a saturation ad campaign, cross market appeal, etc) but unlike those other movies it wasn't based on a pre-existing property (in the case of all the others, a hit novel). What Star Wars introduced to the blockbuster was extensive merchandising. Moreover, Twentieth Century Fox screwed up big time in this regard: George Lucas couldn't get a studio to greenlight Star Wars, but he was a hot director after American Graffiti, so he took a salary cut in exchange for: the right to "own" Star Wars and make all future sequels, and the rights to the merchandising. Whoops. Star Wars is easily the most lucrative single film franchise in history.

Flash-forward to 1989: nothing much had been done to improve the blockbuster formula since 1977, but WB wasn't about to make the same mistake as 20th C Fox with Batman. Unlike Star Wars, Batman was planned as a work of corporate synergy targetting ancillary markets: WB could only make so much money off a movie. It could make much more money off a movie, action figures, clothes, trading cards, putting Batman clips in Coke commercials, etc., oh, and not one, but two soundtracks. If you lived through 1989, you remember Batmania. There is no way a song as weird as Batdance would hit #1 without beign part of this manufatured zeitgeist. This was when a movie started to become designed as an advertisement for profitting in other arenas (to return to Star Wars, the pod race scene in the Phantom Menace was included so LucasArts could sell video games).

Pop soundtracks - not classical soundtracks, which nonetheless could be popular - had been an increasingly important Hollywood moneygrab since The Graduate and Simon & Garfunkel. So of course Batman was going to have a pop soundtrack forced onto it. I can understand Burton's frustration, but he signed on. Elfman's Batman theme is one of the two best themes from the whole superhero genre, and one of the best themes from 1980s movies. I think Batman gave Prince a fair shake: it solved some money problems, gave him a #1 hit, and sustained his career long term for a generation of kids who probably thought they didn't like Prince and then found out or remembered he made them dance around the living room to Party Man.

Tl:dr: I like both, Trust works well in the movie, 200 Balloons is the better song.

[Edited 7/30/20 15:31pm]

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Reply #16 posted 07/30/20 4:42pm

WhisperingDand
elions

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GirlBrother said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

"200 Balloons" is a better song, but none of his contributions to Batman fit the film except for "The Future" and that one's wayyyyyy in the background.

Someone should re-edit the movie, get rid of the Danny Elfman score, and use all the Prince album.

I'm guessing there's instrumental versions of all the songs in the vault.

I think the entire Batman album sounds like Batman to me. It's dark and moody, yet ridiculously colourful at times. The movie just didn't use the right songs in the right scenes.

Electric Chair was recorded a year before Prince got involved with the Batman movie, but it's kind of weird how the staccato chorus kind of sounds like the "BAT-MAN!"refrain from the old 60s TV show.

It's a crime that the song wasn't used heavily in the movie.

uhhh. No.


The fillm was trying to get away from that 60s "ridiculously colorful" characterization of Batman. Prince's Batman record might sound like that Batman to you, but Tim Burton's Batman was trying to do everything possible to make people forget that campy version. Songs so blatantly in the opposite direction like "Batdance" clearly undermine the dark tone Burton was trying to achieve.


I also take umbridge with this "dark and moody" classification... uhhh, other that "The Future", where exactly? This was post X fueled Black Album shelving "Spooky Electric" Lovesexy positivity where did you put your plus sig technicolored Prince era. He is on record as being as anti-"dark" as his career ever got at this stage, shelving "Dance with the Devil" for being too far in the direction that would have actually, for a change in that record, actually fit the tone of the film the director was trying to capture.

I will say it every Prince Batman thread, I grew up a child obsessed with Batman, and I swear being a little kid and turning to my parents in the middle of the movie during those Joker scenes every time, "...what is this music?? Why did they put these songs in here? They sound nothing like the movie is...."

Even as an adult, whose love of Prince has far eclipsed my love of The Bat, I feel even moreso these might possibly be the most ill-fitting original soundtrack songs in the history of cinema. This is Danny Elfman's artistic moment in history, not Prince's.

[Edited 7/30/20 16:51pm]

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Reply #17 posted 07/30/20 4:47pm

WhisperingDand
elions

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Poplife88 said:

I had no idea Burton wasn't on board with Prince being involved. I always thought it was because they were using Prince songs as placeholders in the museum and parade scenes, so Nicholson thought why don't we get Prince to put new songs there. Then Prince being Prince came back with an entire album.

Trust is such a boring song imo. It was one of the first times I remember thinking Prince was phoning it in on that one. But it does work for that scene, but still think 200 Balloons would've been better.

Jack had 100% of the clout for that movie. Keaton was Mr. Mom comedy guy, Burton was the Pee-Wee kid, Elfman was that dude from Oingo Boingo. Nicholson was the only certifiable legend at this point.

This is why his name was first on the poster, why he had the best financial cut/deals and why when he wanted Prince music the studio gave him Prince music.

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Reply #18 posted 07/30/20 4:55pm

Moonbeam

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It's been a very long time since I've seen the movie, but I remember loving the part with "Trust", which was my favorite song on the album for a long time. I'd have to watch the scene again to see whether "200 Balloons" would be better suited, but as a song, I prefer "Trust".

Feel free to join in the Prince Album Poll 2018! Let'a celebrate his legacy by counting down the most beloved Prince albums, as decided by you!
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Reply #19 posted 07/31/20 7:26am

dodger

TrivialPursuit said:

"200 Balloons" is the better song. It's odd because although "Trust" replaced it, it's really a prototype for "Batdance."

"Trust" is great when he says, "My lawd!" and there's that little instrumental break. But the verses in "200 Balloons" are swangin'!

Both could work in the movie. Balloon is an obvious reference, as is "hubba hubba hubba, who do ya trust?" But it seems like "Trust" drives home the ultimate message of the sequence - the Joker building false hope. The balloons are just an element in the scene.

However, there could have been a clip of it on a radio or something when Batman stole the balloons. Maybe there's just another song in the background coming from one of the floats or something. Very underneath like "The Future" or "Electric Chair" was on the low.

Just on a song level - "200 Balloons."

I agree 200 Balloons is the better of the two and it could have worked well in the movie.

.

Another track that surely could have been used is Dance With The Devil

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Reply #20 posted 07/31/20 7:28am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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200 Balloons

prince-200-balloons-warner-bros.jpg

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Reply #21 posted 07/31/20 10:31am

Robbajobba

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200 Balloons all the way - especially the last third ("turn your head to the east... " etc)... It builds brilliantly - and I prefer how he uses the samples on it to how he does in Batdance - just feels funkier.

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Reply #22 posted 07/31/20 1:13pm

IstenSzek

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i've been listening to "200 balloons" all day. music


and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
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Reply #23 posted 07/31/20 1:20pm

TrivialPursuit

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dodger said:

I agree 200 Balloons is the better of the two and it could have worked well in the movie.

.

Another track that surely could have been used is Dance With The Devil


yeah, I hope that shows up on a deluxe (although with the ownership and trademark issues, who knows if Batman Deluxe will ever be a thing). I suppose those songs could end up on Lovesexy or GB, too. Lotta cross pollenation during that time.

DWTD could've been put in quite a few places as something sinister in the background (like "The Future" or "Vicki Waiting"). It certainly carried the mood of the film well.

Just when U think U've got more than enough, that's when it all up and flies away.
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Reply #24 posted 07/31/20 6:09pm

WhisperingDand
elions

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TrivialPursuit said:

dodger said:

I agree 200 Balloons is the better of the two and it could have worked well in the movie.

.

Another track that surely could have been used is Dance With The Devil


yeah, I hope that shows up on a deluxe (although with the ownership and trademark issues, who knows if Batman Deluxe will ever be a thing). I suppose those songs could end up on Lovesexy or GB, too. Lotta cross pollenation during that time.

DWTD could've been put in quite a few places as something sinister in the background (like "The Future" or "Vicki Waiting"). It certainly carried the mood of the film well.

Yes. And it would have at least brought the number of "dark" songs on the soundtrack to a primarily dark movie by a director of dark gothic cinema to a grand total of two instead of just one.

I swear if I ever get access to a Delorean and a flux capacitor, one of the first stops is MN sometime in 1987, slap the X out of Ingrid Chavez's dealer's hands, good gravy. Literally the night an entire storied career suddenly took a sharp turn left.... can't have dark songs in a dark movie no sir! Better to remix/repurpose the Adam West theme instead...

[Edited 7/31/20 18:11pm]

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Reply #25 posted 07/31/20 10:17pm

Vannormal

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-

I always thought that the use of his voice in this song is most unsual.

He actually never did that before; several voice over(s) throughout the whole song.

Meaning (i hope i'm explaining this right), he uses his voice in an unusual fashsion, like, one low part and one fasetto part (possibly a third one), and it feels like he 'pushes' (forces) his voice to give it a stranger urgent effect.

He even added some very high falsetto on several more layered parts (which he did very often though). And I know the song has many samples of his own voice, but that's not what i mean.

But he barely ever uses just one voice in this track. Highly peculiar.

"My Funk Is Multi Layered, Don't Stop Me Now" he sings (4:11).

-

And I love that snippet of Boni Boyer's greasy fat voice before the bridge; "Aaaaah, it feels good!" (2:54).

And do we hear Cat there for a second too (3:24)?

Love the use of horns (samples) in this song too. WOnder if he sampled it from Eric and Matt Blistan... sounds also unusual.

Just a great bizarre funk-pop-rock song filed with millions of samples, great bass, and layers of vocals, and still it feels too short.

-

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
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Reply #26 posted 08/03/20 12:33pm

SantanaMaitrey
a

I just listened to Batdance and 200 Balloons and they're nothing but a bunch of beats and samples. Cleverly done, but songwriting is something else.
O tempora! O mores!
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Reply #27 posted 08/03/20 1:36pm

Wolfie87

I freaking love the tempo and beat in Trust. I love to dance, and if that song would've been included in a DJ set, not only would I go mental, but I think non Prince fans could appreciate that song too. Very danceable and a great production.
[Edited 8/3/20 13:37pm]
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Reply #28 posted 08/03/20 1:50pm

lion88

My first initial reaction is Trust. It's a better song. I will listen again to both songs and compare

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Reply #29 posted 08/03/20 3:19pm

RODSERLING

I don't know.
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