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Thread started 09/26/20 10:05am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

“Sign O’ the Times” was saying, “This is all Blackness.”

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Reply #1 posted 09/26/20 10:42am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

That statement that hip hoppers were into p at this time seems a bit contrived. Almost like she csnt admit that p might not have been wholly embraced.

Also I didn't realise the 90s were all pure rnb for prince. Just cos he had a black band doesnt mean he was playing strictly rnb.
[Edited 9/26/20 10:43am]
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Reply #2 posted 09/26/20 3:26pm

Phase3

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

That statement that hip hoppers were into p at this time seems a bit contrived. Almost like she csnt admit that p might not have been wholly embraced.

Also I didn't realise the 90s were all pure rnb for prince. Just cos he had a black band doesnt mean he was playing strictly rnb.
[Edited 9/26/20 10:43am]

Right.The Gold experience and chaos & disorder aren't r&b at all
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Reply #3 posted 09/26/20 3:50pm

TruthBomb

Can’t even get past the asinine headline...what a bunch of garbage 😆
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Reply #4 posted 09/26/20 4:07pm

purplepolitici
an

avatar

I read the whole thing, I kinda dig what they r saying. Fancy smile.
For all time I am with you, you are with me.
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Reply #5 posted 09/26/20 4:14pm

BanishedBrian

Phase3 said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:
That statement that hip hoppers were into p at this time seems a bit contrived. Almost like she csnt admit that p might not have been wholly embraced. Also I didn't realise the 90s were all pure rnb for prince. Just cos he had a black band doesnt mean he was playing strictly rnb. [Edited 9/26/20 10:43am]
Right.The Gold experience and chaos & disorder aren't r&b at all

Agreed - and the Undertaker disc even moreso.

No Candy 4 Me
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Reply #6 posted 09/26/20 6:56pm

HamsterHuey

Phase3 said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:
Also I didn't realise the 90s were all pure rnb for prince. Just cos he had a black band doesnt mean he was playing strictly rnb.
Right.The Gold experience and chaos & disorder aren't r&b at all


Yup; a lot of people, reviewers especially, always have to push Prince into the bracket of their choice. A lot of fans as well. I love how he always was and aimed to be multi-faceted and he always kicked down those orders and helped me so many times to kick some down as well, repeatedly.

But he said it best himself;

Don't play me
I'm the wrong color & I play guitar

>>
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Reply #7 posted 09/26/20 7:11pm

Number1Crush

[journalist intently listening to headphones]

Oh my gawd, this is SO melanated!

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Reply #8 posted 09/27/20 12:21am

fragglerock

avatar

what trash

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Reply #9 posted 09/27/20 1:04am

LoveGalore

Phase3 said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

That statement that hip hoppers were into p at this time seems a bit contrived. Almost like she csnt admit that p might not have been wholly embraced.

Also I didn't realise the 90s were all pure rnb for prince. Just cos he had a black band doesnt mean he was playing strictly rnb.
[Edited 9/26/20 10:43am]

Right.The Gold experience and chaos & disorder aren't r&b at all


"At all"?

Hmm. More than half the album is RNB or hip hop and there's specifically a song about racism on the album. Same with the one that preceded it. Chaos has several genres more than TGE and yet it still has RNB.

Just in case anyone forgot, RnB does have guitars. But you may have to listen to more black artists than prince to know that. YMMV.
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Reply #10 posted 09/27/20 3:00am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

I'd be the first person to admit bands like lo key and mint condition were prob more influential on prince in this period than most might imagine. Not saying rnb wasnt in the mix, just saying it wasnt everything he was doing in this period. By the same token, its erroneous to think post p.r prince had no rnb or funk either. New position, tambourine, housequake, etc. He wasnt all crossover pop like it might be easy to think. Brooks is just engaging in a lot of revisionism though, to suit her own needs and feelings.
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Reply #11 posted 09/27/20 3:20am

udo

avatar

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Interesting discussion https://www.latimes.com/e...ue-box-set

.

Why?

They make the statement that deopending on what type of music he plays he would be changing his (perreived) color.

Is that 'new'?

Is that 'strange'?

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #12 posted 09/27/20 6:59am

LoveGalore

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

I'd be the first person to admit bands like lo key and mint condition were prob more influential on prince in this period than most might imagine. Not saying rnb wasnt in the mix, just saying it wasnt everything he was doing in this period. By the same token, its erroneous to think post p.r prince had no rnb or funk either. New position, tambourine, housequake, etc. He wasnt all crossover pop like it might be easy to think. Brooks is just engaging in a lot of revisionism though, to suit her own needs and feelings.


Sure, but it has long been said that SOTT was a step toward regaining his black audience after very white Euro-centric music and aesthetic of PR to Parade.

I don't pay attention to too much revisionist history when it comes to SOTT, but I also know Housequake ain't a song for three stuffy white ladies to dance to on stage. There's a reason he changed his band up to be mostly POC after the Revolution was shown the door.
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Reply #13 posted 09/27/20 7:42am

udo

avatar

LoveGalore said:

after very white Euro-centric music and aesthetic of PR to Parade

.

Huh?

So Rock (PR), the `different` ATWIAD and the again `different` Parade are all WHAT?

Perhaps not so 'black' when one associates that with R&B, rap, beats and such.

But how did you get to 'euro'?

What do you associate with that?

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #14 posted 09/27/20 7:52am

LoveGalore

udo said:



LoveGalore said:


after very white Euro-centric music and aesthetic of PR to Parade

.


Huh?


So Rock (PR), the `different` ATWIAD and the again `different` Parade are all WHAT?


Perhaps not so 'black' when one associates that with R&B, rap, beats and such.


But how did you get to 'euro'?


What do you associate with that?



I can't even.
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Reply #15 posted 09/27/20 8:10am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

I don't even know why they titled it that. I guess to get headlines or something. The article/interview only focus 1/10 on that. Which i disagree with. Like when Questluv said Prince was hip hop. Dude I love the Roots, but come on. Dead On It.

SOTT was For You Prince Dirty Mind Controversy 1999 Purple Rain ATWIAD and Parade = This is What It's Like In the Dream Factory

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
don't follow me if you're easily triggered...
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
For the mystery of iniquit
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Reply #16 posted 09/27/20 8:48am

bsprout

OldFriends4Sale said:


<

SOTT was For You Prince Dirty Mind Controversy 1999 Purple Rain ATWIAD and Parade = This is What It's Like In the Dream Factory



Uh-huh 🎶 lol
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Reply #17 posted 09/27/20 9:08am

tab32792

Lol I love this place. All these replies are exactly what I expect from this place. More ignoring his blackness. Purple rain around the world in a day and parade had world elements. Parade had plenty of euro flavor so idk what the confusion is. There were whispers of him losing his black audience. SOTT was a compilation album for sure but there’s a lot of soul in that record that was missing in the past 3.


And did you even read the questlove write up about him being hip hop? If you’re did you’d know what he meant by that. Clearly you don’t. He didn’t mean rap. He meant hip hop culture.

And misusing quotes of his is getting old too. Again when he said don’t make me black, he meant he didn’t want a black budget cause he knew that meant little to nothing. He didn’t wanna only play r&b which was “black music”. He wanted to play and say whatever he wanted. He wanted freedom from the beginning. That’s what he meant.
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Reply #18 posted 09/27/20 9:12am

LoveGalore

tab32792 said:

Lol I love this place. All these replies are exactly what I expect from this place. More ignoring his blackness. Purple rain around the world in a day and parade had world elements. Parade had plenty of euro flavor so idk what the confusion is. There were whispers of him losing his black audience. SOTT was a compilation album for sure but there’s a lot of soul in that record that was missing in the past 3.


And did you even read the questlove write up about him being hip hop? If you’re did you’d know what he meant by that. Clearly you don’t. He didn’t mean rap. He meant hip hop culture.

And misusing quotes of his is getting old too. Again when he said don’t make me black, he meant he didn’t want a black budget cause he knew that meant little to nothing. He didn’t wanna only play r&b which was “black music”. He wanted to play and say whatever he wanted. He wanted freedom from the beginning. That’s what he meant.


100
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Reply #19 posted 09/27/20 9:14am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

LoveGalore said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

I'd be the first person to admit bands like lo key and mint condition were prob more influential on prince in this period than most might imagine. Not saying rnb wasnt in the mix, just saying it wasnt everything he was doing in this period. By the same token, its erroneous to think post p.r prince had no rnb or funk either. New position, tambourine, housequake, etc. He wasnt all crossover pop like it might be easy to think. Brooks is just engaging in a lot of revisionism though, to suit her own needs and feelings.


Sure, but it has long been said that SOTT was a step toward regaining his black audience after very white Euro-centric music and aesthetic of PR to Parade.

I don't pay attention to too much revisionist history when it comes to SOTT, but I also know Housequake ain't a song for three stuffy white ladies to dance to on stage. There's a reason he changed his band up to be mostly POC after the Revolution was shown the door.


Has that really been said? I always thought princes worry about losing his core black audience was still there after SOTT, hence him feeling the need to release the black album in late 87, as an album for clubs, and heavy in dance tracks, funk, jazz, etc.

Housequake is just one song on that album btw. Pretty sure your typical rock n pop loving white girls were still well catered for with okay in the sunshine, starfish n coffee, u got the look, etc

Shame prince didnt stick with the 87/88 band longer. They were def his greatest band. Most fans would agree I would say.

I'm sure some fans were put off by him having a mostly black band in the 90s, and yeah, I wonder if some of the npg dislike was down to that, but I dont think it was like 'hey its prince going back to his rnb roots!'. Thetr was still plenty of pop in there.
[Edited 9/27/20 12:32pm]
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Reply #20 posted 09/27/20 9:22am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

tab32792 said:

Lol I love this place. All these replies are exactly what I expect from this place. More ignoring his blackness. Purple rain around the world in a day and parade had world elements. Parade had plenty of euro flavor so idk what the confusion is. There were whispers of him losing his black audience. SOTT was a compilation album for sure but there’s a lot of soul in that record that was missing in the past 3.


And did you even read the questlove write up about him being hip hop? If you’re did you’d know what he meant by that. Clearly you don’t. He didn’t mean rap. He meant hip hop culture.

And misusing quotes of his is getting old too. Again when he said don’t make me black, he meant he didn’t want a black budget cause he knew that meant little to nothing. He didn’t wanna only play r&b which was “black music”. He wanted to play and say whatever he wanted. He wanted freedom from the beginning. That’s what he meant.


I'm not ignoring his blackness.
I just dont think trying to paint prince as chuck d or even James Brown for that matter is accurate.
I mean, yeah, he supported BLM and Baltimore in the last few years, he grew out his afro, he covered the staple singers when will we be paid, but I think a lot of that was to make sure no one thought he was ashamed of his blackness as some said in the 80s. Which is fine. But it also speaks to a certain insecurity on his part, a worry that he didnt appear black enough, when if you ask guys like ice cube or chuck d, they'd say they loved prince in the 80s, even though it would seem to some that their music was diametrically opposed. so he seemed to force signifiers in as he got older, just in case anyone thought he wasn't 'black enough', when i would say there was no need for that concern in the first place (and its obv prince was black, just look at how he takes little swipes at white people not being able to clap on time on DMSR, or dinner with delores).

my issue with writers like brooks is that she seems so worried that people might not understand prince was black, or his connection to black music, to black artistry, that she herself goes to extraordinary lengths to defend and solidify his blackness, just in case anyone should think prince was too pop, or too eurofied, or too 'white' or whatever. its - in my view - unnecessary.
[Edited 9/27/20 12:31pm]
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Reply #21 posted 09/27/20 12:08pm

tab32792

or....now that he is established and got more than enough attention that he wanted with a lot of the decisions he made early on, he can be himself. a black man that played all kinds of music? none of that was forced. only a person who isn't black would say such a thing. Everybody knows he is black; especially black people. look how folks reacted with the name change. who was making fun of him? white people..but anyway, it is a need for it if it was because of the people that populate this website and facebook forums....they preach all this paisley park utopian bullshit

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Reply #22 posted 09/27/20 12:23pm

Margot

The 'blackness' debate erupts every 6 months or so.

P had many black and white fans whose perspectives

differ fairly widely.

I often sit these discussions out as I am not black and feel

I may be somewhat tone-deaf.

I don't know what I don't know.

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Reply #23 posted 09/27/20 12:25pm

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

tab32792 said:

or....now that he is established and got more than enough attention that he wanted with a lot of the decisions he made early on, he can be himself. a black man that played all kinds of music? none of that was forced. only a person who isn't black would say such a thing. Everybody knows he is black; especially black people. look how folks reacted with the name change. who was making fun of him? white people..but anyway, it is a need for it if it was because of the people that populate this website and facebook forums....they preach all this paisley park utopian bullshit

dont think anyone said a black man playing all kinds of music was forced. i love old parliament, stevie wonder, sly, richie havens, shuggie otis, id never say their music was forced. far from it.

anyway, i dont wanna offend anyone. i personally dont really care for most of prince's political songs in general (hes no stevie wonder, GSH or curtis in that regard), i dont think that was his strong suit, but that's just me, id personally have preferred if he just did what he did in the 80s, support black causes, donate, lend his name, etc, without necessarily writing songs about it. but hey, i understand he needed to show where he belonged, and that fans wanted to claim him. i think that generation of neo soul artists did a good job of showing princes lineage and influence, guys like dangelo, erykah badu, maxwell, etc. then on the dance side, you have moodymann, green velvet, etc. its pretty undeniable.

[Edited 9/27/20 13:05pm]

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Reply #24 posted 09/27/20 12:33pm

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

Margot said:

The 'blackness' debate erupts every 6 months or so.

P had many black and white fans whose perspectives

differ fairly widely.

I often sit these discussions out as I am not black and feel

I may be somewhat tone-deaf.

I don't know what I don't know.

the previous discussions are pretty horrific.

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Reply #25 posted 09/27/20 12:54pm

onlyforaminute

HamsterHuey said:



Phase3 said:


funkbabyandthebabysitters said:
Also I didn't realise the 90s were all pure rnb for prince. Just cos he had a black band doesnt mean he was playing strictly rnb.

Right.The Gold experience and chaos & disorder aren't r&b at all


Yup; a lot of people, reviewers especially, always have to push Prince into the bracket of their choice. A lot of fans as well. I love how he always was and aimed to be multi-faceted and he always kicked down those orders and helped me so many times to kick some down as well, repeatedly.



But he said it best himself;


Don't play me
I'm the wrong color & I play guitar


That's one quality I've loved about him. It's a hard place to be in.
If you carry the egg basket do not dance.

Do good, then throw it into the sea.

#octavia tried to tell us
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Reply #26 posted 09/27/20 2:13pm

Margot

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Margot said:

The 'blackness' debate erupts every 6 months or so.

P had many black and white fans whose perspectives

differ fairly widely.

I often sit these discussions out as I am not black and feel

I may be somewhat tone-deaf.

I don't know what I don't know.

the previous discussions are pretty horrific.

I know.

I guess, in a perfect world, I would like to be gently educated if I say something

that is racist or thoughtless.

Like I said before, I don't know what I don't know, though I would like to learn more.

Prince was so crytpic and unpredictable, so there's that...

[Edited 9/27/20 14:16pm]

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Reply #27 posted 09/27/20 3:38pm

WhisperingDand
elions

avatar

I read this article and I feel it isn't even arguing what the title of the argue tries to present it as arguing... their "discussion" is as all over the place as they contest the LP is.

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Reply #28 posted 09/27/20 3:41pm

WhisperingDand
elions

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't even know why they titled it that. I guess to get headlines or something. The article/interview only focus 1/10 on that. Which i disagree with. Like when Questluv said Prince was hip hop. Dude I love the Roots, but come on. Dead On It.

SOTT was For You Prince Dirty Mind Controversy 1999 Purple Rain ATWIAD and Parade = This is What It's Like In the Dream Factory

Yes. It's a quite random quote that goes uncontested/unexpounded... yet it's the headline? Like most contemporary P analysis it speaks more toward the era the article was written in than the era the article is supposedly about....

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Reply #29 posted 09/27/20 4:03pm

SPYZFAN1

Good interview, but I never understood the whole "P's S.O.T.T album was him trying to get his black audience back" hoopla.....the "Parade" singles were played constantly on the NYC r&b radio stations back then...even the 12" versions were played too...BET, Video Music Box and NY Hot Tracks played the "Parade" videos a lot.....He probably lost most of the casual/curious "P.R/Raspberry Beret" fans and bystanders by late 1986.

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