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Reply #180 posted 11/08/20 5:23pm

thebanishedone

imprimis said:

LoveGalore said:

OldFriends4Sale said: Yeah but his material in the 90s really is much better than people give it credit for. It does hit different, certainly Lovesexy hits different. But since you did bring up Lovesexy, look at what the SOTT SDE shows us. Most of the stuff he waa doing on his own sounds much more like Lovesexy than it does Parade. I look at something like "When the Dawn..." as being very very indicative of where his mind was headed after the tour. It was him going back to where he was before the Revolution was a thing, and then working that out. He got his cake and ate it too. It's a different sensibility for sure, but Lovesexy is probably closer to Prince's own style and heart than whatever was on Dream Factory (which really feels like a further exploration of Parade than very forward thinking). And while I don't necessarily think Lovesexy is more advanced or interesting in the same ways DF is, I still dig Prince being fully Prince to anything else.

'When the Dawn of the Morning Comes' is probably not the apropos example; I believe it is a reworked ~1982/83-era outtake; aside from the 'soul claps' overdubs (which has led to the comparison to 'The Line' version 1), and Sheila's percussion, it sounds nothing like a 1986 production (analog organ, '1999' chord pattern, post-disco bass, Controversy/1999-style rhythm guitar playing, vintage Linndrum pattern and ROMs, references to 'Let's Work', etc).

.

'It Be's Like That Sometimes' is his firm parting statement (and seems very Wally Safford-inspired); 'Waterfalls ' on W&L (1987) seems to respond directly to it (albeit with some trite and generic lyrics). I wonder whether IBLTS was shared with the any of the parting members at the time?

.

[Edited 11/8/20 16:04pm]

Maybe you are right about WTDOTMC ,organ sounds like oberheim synth organ and drum beat is very 1982

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Reply #181 posted 11/09/20 5:50am

jaawwnn

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funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

lovesexy was his greatest tour.

most ambitious, most costly, but just flat out, his best.

an incredible undertaking.

i know alan leeds thinks it was crazy, and a money drain, but at least it was for a good project.

history will be in princes favour for that tour.

It mostly leaves me cold tbh. I like bits of it and obviously the aftershows.

"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
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Reply #182 posted 11/09/20 7:30am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

Lovesexy is a masterclass in medleys
He kinda took that James brown thing of no stops between songs to a new higher level
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Reply #183 posted 11/09/20 7:33am

Derek880

imprimis said:

Greg Brooks' & Wally Safford's influence + spurred by criticism in the media the previous year, an unevenly received exchanging rock god status for a soul band revue frontman act (with a rough landing, by abandoning the Minneapolis sound about a year sooner than perhaps would have been in his longer-term career and financial interests) + his own stylistic challenges in adapting to rapidly shifting currents in commercial music in the latter part of the mid-1980s, which he appears to deny and distract himself from by indulging in "art pop" delittantism and back-to-basics homages to the idols of his youth (in which process he may have opened the floodgates to too much Coleman/Melvoin involvement) + the failure/underperformance of UTCM/Parade + infidelities and an increasingly acrimonious relationship with Susannah Melvoin + his desire to replace Bobby Z with Sheila for several years + the continued temptation of pursuing a dual career in film = all brought to bear that his backing band had outlived its polite fiction of being billed as true collaborators on every level. With Paisley Park getting closer to completion, and in light of declining sales, the WB corporatocracy also likely prodded a bit for a 'refresh' as a producer, and a fortified brand as simply 'Prince', to refocus him and walk him back from the excesses.

.

Bobby Z recounts 'trouble in Paradise' even before the often repeated airport incident.

.

Going into 1986, I don't believe he had serious plans (deep within) for 'the Revolution' to remain after touring beyond one more major (post-Parade) album release.

.

I believe some of the W&L-heavy tracks from early and mid-1986 were recorded as "going away gifts" (of varying and often marginal quality), for a firing he knew would come within the intermediate future; he gave them a moment to shine, and it would be something for his former backing partners to reflect back on in the experience; when push came to shove, many of these were not release-worthy for an artist of his stature at the time, and he had to have known it; the personal tensions and commercial pressures just expedited this decision by about 6-12 months.

.

However, that isn't to say that he was always better off with his revamped sound and refashioned image, in the immediate aftermath of breaking up.

.

Other groups popular 1981-1985 disbanded for good around this time (Wham, Culture Club, Thompson Twins, etc).

.

1986, in general, was a 'Great Reset' year where the surviving conventions from the first half of 1980s died a full death.

.

[Edited 11/5/20 19:15pm]

I can feel some of the portions I highlighted. Those are things that people either don't want to accept, or refuse to accept about his work with W&L. I think it some ways their involvement was a bit stiffling, and it wasn't always good stuff. In spite of some true gems, the Sign o' the Times Deluxe clearly shows that some of those collaborations were a bit whack and lack a certain quality.

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Reply #184 posted 11/09/20 8:45am

jaawwnn

avatar

Derek880 said:

imprimis said:

Greg Brooks' & Wally Safford's influence + spurred by criticism in the media the previous year, an unevenly received exchanging rock god status for a soul band revue frontman act (with a rough landing, by abandoning the Minneapolis sound about a year sooner than perhaps would have been in his longer-term career and financial interests) + his own stylistic challenges in adapting to rapidly shifting currents in commercial music in the latter part of the mid-1980s, which he appears to deny and distract himself from by indulging in "art pop" delittantism and back-to-basics homages to the idols of his youth (in which process he may have opened the floodgates to too much Coleman/Melvoin involvement) + the failure/underperformance of UTCM/Parade + infidelities and an increasingly acrimonious relationship with Susannah Melvoin + his desire to replace Bobby Z with Sheila for several years + the continued temptation of pursuing a dual career in film = all brought to bear that his backing band had outlived its polite fiction of being billed as true collaborators on every level. With Paisley Park getting closer to completion, and in light of declining sales, the WB corporatocracy also likely prodded a bit for a 'refresh' as a producer, and a fortified brand as simply 'Prince', to refocus him and walk him back from the excesses.

.

Bobby Z recounts 'trouble in Paradise' even before the often repeated airport incident.

.

Going into 1986, I don't believe he had serious plans (deep within) for 'the Revolution' to remain after touring beyond one more major (post-Parade) album release.

.

I believe some of the W&L-heavy tracks from early and mid-1986 were recorded as "going away gifts" (of varying and often marginal quality), for a firing he knew would come within the intermediate future; he gave them a moment to shine, and it would be something for his former backing partners to reflect back on in the experience; when push came to shove, many of these were not release-worthy for an artist of his stature at the time, and he had to have known it; the personal tensions and commercial pressures just expedited this decision by about 6-12 months.

.

However, that isn't to say that he was always better off with his revamped sound and refashioned image, in the immediate aftermath of breaking up.

.

Other groups popular 1981-1985 disbanded for good around this time (Wham, Culture Club, Thompson Twins, etc).

.

1986, in general, was a 'Great Reset' year where the surviving conventions from the first half of 1980s died a full death.

.

[Edited 11/5/20 19:15pm]

I can feel some of the portions I highlighted. Those are things that people either don't want to accept, or refuse to accept about his work with W&L. I think it some ways their involvement was a bit stiffling, and it wasn't always good stuff. In spite of some true gems, the Sign o' the Times Deluxe clearly shows that some of those collaborations were a bit whack and lack a certain quality.

Disagree, all Prince outtakes vary wildly in their quality. There's plenty of Prince-only stuff on the 1999 superdeluxe that was never going to see the light of day. If we're going to say that Prince didn't need W&L to write his music, and I accept that he didn't, and they should stop taking credit for stuff then we don't get to blame them when we dislike a song either.



[Edited 11/9/20 8:45am]

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Reply #185 posted 11/11/20 8:49pm

whodknee

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Derek880 said:

whodknee said:

Prince and the Girl Bros. were magic. That doesn't detract from Prince at all. They helped him to be his best self (artistically) and vice-versa. However, he wanted to go in a different direction musically and then with the Susannah drama, disbanding the Revolution was inevitable. Rather than let things completely implode he saw the writing on the wall and had the balls and foresight to make the move when he did.

Nah...and it's time that people who have been a part of Prince's musical journey from the beginning, start to debunk this myth. They didn't help him be his "best self" artistically. That's always been either the most insulting comment made about his legacy, or the most uninsightful. Prince was a phenom before they ever played with him, and many years after. The biggest part of the problem is that for some odd reason, the Revolution voices are the only ones that are allowed to speak. They weren't even around as long as most of the people he played with. Wendy was only around 3-4 years. Lisa - 6 years. Now look at some of his other band members...Rhonda Smith was around even longer than Wendy and Lisa, about 6 years or so, give or take. Sheila E.- spans about a 10 year period off and on. Miko - 7 years, Levi - about 6 years or so. Morris Hayes - off and on for about 20 years (!). Tommy Barbarella was even around about 6-8 years. Prince connected and grew from LOTS of people artistically. In the span of his career, The Revolution years really aren't as big a time span as people think. That 1999 period, BEFORE all the Revolution hype, was the turning point in my opinion, and it didn't require either Wendy or Lisa. Just Prince, in a room, letting his creativity loose. Let's give the man his due and stop acting as if he didn't begin to know music until he put these two women in his band. It's insulting...

I stand by my statement. I'm not saying it couldn't happen with anybody else but as with most things chemistry and timing are almost as important as ability. Prince was the main ingredient- the catalyst-- no doubt about it. Wendy and Lisa were the right people at the right time. Rather than talk about it though I'll remind you to listen to Power Fantastic and All My Dreams. If those aren't your flavor then there's not much more I can say.

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Reply #186 posted 11/11/20 11:00pm

woogiebear

lurker316 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince wanted Brown Mark to stay as well



Yeah, I know Brown Mark tells people that, but was it confirmed?

Regarldess, if he kept Wendy, Lisa, Fink and Mark, that means he'd only really be firing Bobby Z. (And augmenting the band with Miko, Eric and Altanta, as he'd done on the Parade tour.)

Rumor has it, He called Jellybean 2 B Drummer 4 The Revolution. while filming UTCM, He called Jellybean. Bean asked Him "What about The Family?" And supposedly Prince hung up on Him

eek eek eek

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Reply #187 posted 11/12/20 12:30am

SoulAlive

BrownMark has said that,earlier in 1986,Stevie Nicks offered him a huge sum of money to join her band.He says that he stayed with The Revolution just to be loyal.In some of his 1987 interviews,he seemed really pissed at Prince.

lurker316 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince wanted Brown Mark to stay as well



Yeah, I know Brown Mark tells people that, but was it confirmed?

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Reply #188 posted 11/12/20 12:35am

SoulAlive

In 1983 when Dez Dickerson was thinking about leaving Prince's band,he said that Prince needed a three-year commitment.OF course,he wasn't able to agree to those terms and he left.But think about this: a "three-year commitment" would be from 1983 to 1986.This proves that Prince was always thinking ahead and very likely already had plans to disband the Revolution three years later.I think he was like this with the other bands too.In his view,perhaps the Lovesexy Band was meant to be a two-year plan.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Sadly the Lovesexy band didn't last. But I knew that in 1987.

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Reply #189 posted 11/12/20 6:53am

thebanishedone

SoulAlive said:

In 1983 when Dez Dickerson was thinking about leaving Prince's band,he said that Prince needed a three-year commitment.OF course,he wasn't able to agree to those terms and he left.But think about this: a "three-year commitment" would be from 1983 to 1986.This proves that Prince was always thinking ahead and very likely already had plans to disband the Revolution three years later.I think he was like this with the other bands too.In his view,perhaps the Lovesexy Band was meant to be a two-year plan.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Sadly the Lovesexy band didn't last. But I knew that in 1987.

no it was supposed to be 7 years not 3

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Reply #190 posted 11/12/20 12:44pm

SoulAlive

thebanishedone said:

SoulAlive said:

In 1983 when Dez Dickerson was thinking about leaving Prince's band,he said that Prince needed a three-year commitment.OF course,he wasn't able to agree to those terms and he left.But think about this: a "three-year commitment" would be from 1983 to 1986.This proves that Prince was always thinking ahead and very likely already had plans to disband the Revolution three years later.I think he was like this with the other bands too.In his view,perhaps the Lovesexy Band was meant to be a two-year plan.

no it was supposed to be 7 years not 3

The Revolution (band) - Wikipedia

The words "and the Revolution" can be seen printed backwards on the cover of his fifth album 1999. The band members were curious as to if they were getting a real name, but Prince had held back from fully calling the group the Revolution partly because of Dez Dickerson's wishes to leave the band. When the 1999 Tour ended, Dez Dickerson finally left the band for religious reasons and was replaced by Coleman's childhood friend Wendy Melvoin. Prince told Dickerson that he needed three years from him, and Dickerson wasn't willing to commit. Prince told Dickerson he'd leave him on payroll and honor his contract, which Prince did. Dickerson went on to eventually work for independent Christian record label Star Song. Wendy and Lisa shortly thereafter formed a special bond with Prince and greatly influenced his output during the rest of their tenure in the band. Prince's former mostly R&B/funk offerings would be more diversified with rock, pop and classical music elements.

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Reply #191 posted 11/12/20 1:37pm

Genesia

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thebanishedone said:

SoulAlive said:

In 1983 when Dez Dickerson was thinking about leaving Prince's band,he said that Prince needed a three-year commitment.OF course,he wasn't able to agree to those terms and he left.But think about this: a "three-year commitment" would be from 1983 to 1986.This proves that Prince was always thinking ahead and very likely already had plans to disband the Revolution three years later.I think he was like this with the other bands too.In his view,perhaps the Lovesexy Band was meant to be a two-year plan.

no it was supposed to be 7 years not 3


SoulAlive is right - it was 3.

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
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Reply #192 posted 11/13/20 9:11am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

I don't know about the Lovesexy band, or if Prince was really 100% on contract commitments with either band back then?

In 89 it was Cat that left the band, and Boni who left the band, and Prince was moving Sheila E back to being a protege front man, they disagreed about the direction and she left, Atlanta Bliss retired and Eric stepped outside of the Purple camp. etc

But overall that band loosely would have been in the Graffiti Bridge movie 87 88 89 90 ish...?

SoulAlive said:

In 1983 when Dez Dickerson was thinking about leaving Prince's band,he said that Prince needed a three-year commitment.OF course,he wasn't able to agree to those terms and he left.But think about this: a "three-year commitment" would be from 1983 to 1986.This proves that Prince was always thinking ahead and very likely already had plans to disband the Revolution three years later.I think he was like this with the other bands too.In his view,perhaps the Lovesexy Band was meant to be a two-year plan.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Sadly the Lovesexy band didn't last. But I knew that in 1987.

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Reply #193 posted 11/14/20 7:19am

homesquid

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LoveGalore said:

homesquid said:

Without Wendy & Lisa's influence SOTT wouldn't be what it is. Prince did his best work with the gals in his orbit

Stop this mess. They didn't have any thing to do with SOTT and only contribute anything to three songs - most of which are unrecognizable from the session they contributed to.

Without Wendy & Lisa's influence SOTT wouldn't be what it is. Prince did his best work with the gals in his orbit

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Reply #194 posted 11/14/20 1:06pm

SoulAlive

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't know about the Lovesexy band, or if Prince was really 100% on contract commitments with either band back then?

In 89 it was Cat that left the band, and Boni who left the band, and Prince was moving Sheila E back to being a protege front man, they disagreed about the direction and she left, Atlanta Bliss retired and Eric stepped outside of the Purple camp. etc

But overall that band loosely would have been in the Graffiti Bridge movie 87 88 89 90 ish...?

SoulAlive said:

In 1983 when Dez Dickerson was thinking about leaving Prince's band,he said that Prince needed a three-year commitment.OF course,he wasn't able to agree to those terms and he left.But think about this: a "three-year commitment" would be from 1983 to 1986.This proves that Prince was always thinking ahead and very likely already had plans to disband the Revolution three years later.I think he was like this with the other bands too.In his view,perhaps the Lovesexy Band was meant to be a two-year plan.

I think that Prince just gets bored with the same lineup for too long.He was always changing members.Rosie Gaines played a big role on Diamonds And Pearls (the tour and album) but notice that she wasn't even on the next album and tour.

Also,when you think about the Revolution in 1986....it was a disappointing year for Prince.His movie UTCM flopped and the Parade album had weak sales here in the US.Perhaps he had the mindset of "making a fresh,new start" for 1987.

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Reply #195 posted 11/16/20 7:37pm

controversy99

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Things could have gone fine for a few more years continuing with the Revolution, but eventually it was going to get stale. If he didn't break up the Revolution at some point, I don't we wouldn't have gotten many of Prince's strongest songs from the 1990s. Gett Off, D&P, Willing & Able, Sexy MF, 2 the 9s,, Shhh, and many others resulted from his new relationships.

I think getting a new band in 1987 was good timing. Lovesexy was an excellent album with a horrible cover and the Black Album is an interesting experiment, although not my favorite. These albums and Madhouse 16 were what came out of the studio with the 87-89 band around.
.
And the 87-89 band was Dynamic on stage.
.
And haivng SotT be a solo album was a good move, too.
.
I think Lisa said it best: "he still wanted to be hot and not just like suddenly we're Tom Petty or somebody just writing songs"

"Love & honesty, peace & harmony"
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Reply #196 posted 11/17/20 5:38am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

SoulAlive said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't know about the Lovesexy band, or if Prince was really 100% on contract commitments with either band back then?

In 89 it was Cat that left the band, and Boni who left the band, and Prince was moving Sheila E back to being a protege front man, they disagreed about the direction and she left, Atlanta Bliss retired and Eric stepped outside of the Purple camp. etc

But overall that band loosely would have been in the Graffiti Bridge movie 87 88 89 90 ish...?

I think that Prince just gets bored with the same lineup for too long.He was always changing members.Rosie Gaines played a big role on Diamonds And Pearls (the tour and album) but notice that she wasn't even on the next album and tour.

Also,when you think about the Revolution in 1986....it was a disappointing year for Prince.His movie UTCM flopped and the Parade album had weak sales here in the US.Perhaps he had the mindset of "making a fresh,new start" for 1987.

I don't know.. but like Cat, and Bonnie Boyer, Rosie Gaines left herself because of the atmosphere with Prince and the band.

.

Prince was at fault for 1986. The Parade album/soundtrack was wonderful. The movie was made wrong. And even though I enjoy it, Christopher was a bitch. He was trying to be Morris Day & Jerome(Purple Rain) the movie should have had band scenes. Being a 'Gigolo' using women wasn't sympathetic. He should have been a pianist/artist working in the upper class society of France.
.
If the movie was better, everything else would have been received better.

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Reply #197 posted 11/17/20 5:47am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

controversy99 said:

Things could have gone fine for a few more years continuing with the Revolution, but eventually it was going to get stale. If he didn't break up the Revolution at some point, I don't we wouldn't have gotten many of Prince's strongest songs from the 1990s. Gett Off, D&P, Willing & Able, Sexy MF, 2 the 9s,, Shhh, and many others resulted from his new relationships.

I think getting a new band in 1987 was good timing. Lovesexy was an excellent album with a horrible cover and the Black Album is an interesting experiment, although not my favorite. These albums and Madhouse 16 were what came out of the studio with the 87-89 band around.
.
And the 87-89 band was Dynamic on stage.
.
And haivng SotT be a solo album was a good move, too.
.
I think Lisa said it best: "he still wanted to be hot and not just like suddenly we're Tom Petty or somebody just writing songs"

I thought he should have finished out the 1980's with the Revolution. The Dream Factory Revolution could have incorporated more musicians to bring forth the sounds. And go from there.

.
With the breakup of the Revolution, we really did see the kingdom shrink. The protege scene fell off. Madhouse was good but not able to be a full era because everyone but Dale Alexander was in Prince's band. Madhouse also extended out of the Family and the Flesh sessions of 1985.

.

Those strong songs you listed are cool. But they really don't hold up against 'average' songs from 1982-1986/87 The 1990s period is very shaky stuff buildt on a strong foundation of 1978-1987

.

Yes I loved the 1987-1988 band and the 1 time SNL band I wish continued instead of the 1990 NPG. From 1990- the proteges also reflected -resulted from his new relationships.

The Time, Vanity 6, Sheila E. the Family, Mazarati, Jill Jones, Madhouse protege albums were strong -reflecting the community of the time.

.

Also by 1988 Prince was a different type of star. And everyone that came to his camp after 1987 had a different view of Prince and different relation vs those from 1978-1987. Cat was the newest one more fit like the 1978-1986 community.

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if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
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Reply #198 posted 11/18/20 1:30pm

SoulAlive

OldFriends4Sale said:

SoulAlive said:

I think that Prince just gets bored with the same lineup for too long.He was always changing members.Rosie Gaines played a big role on Diamonds And Pearls (the tour and album) but notice that she wasn't even on the next album and tour.

Also,when you think about the Revolution in 1986....it was a disappointing year for Prince.His movie UTCM flopped and the Parade album had weak sales here in the US.Perhaps he had the mindset of "making a fresh,new start" for 1987.

I don't know.. but like Cat, and Bonnie Boyer, Rosie Gaines left herself because of the atmosphere with Prince and the band.

.

Prince was at fault for 1986. The Parade album/soundtrack was wonderful. The movie was made wrong. And even though I enjoy it, Christopher was a bitch. He was trying to be Morris Day & Jerome(Purple Rain) the movie should have had band scenes. Being a 'Gigolo' using women wasn't sympathetic. He should have been a pianist/artist working in the upper class society of France.
.
If the movie was better, everything else would have been received better.

I agree....the UTCM movie was a disaster.In 1984,Prince did everything right and it all seemed like it was planned perfectly.Unfortunately,there were some big mistakes in 1986.That film never should have happened.

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Reply #199 posted 11/18/20 7:42pm

slyjackson

Very interesting

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Reply #200 posted 11/18/20 9:13pm

SexyMuthaF

Unlike PR, UTCM was meant to be a rom-com. If you view it as a comedy you'll enjoy it more. It was produced by the same three guys as PR, fargmoli & cavallo & ruffalo. But magnoli directed PR, if he had directed UTCM instead of Prince it would have been much better.
[Edited 11/18/20 21:14pm]
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Reply #201 posted 11/26/20 8:21am

tab32792

haveaglamslam said:

LoveGalore said:

homesquid said: Stop this mess. They didn't have any thing to do with SOTT and only contribute anything to three songs - most of which are unrecognizable from the session they contributed to.

Thank you, I'm tired of hearing this same old "SOTT wouldn't be anything without W&L, W&L made the album". They're barely on it like you said, they're on the outtakes more than they are on the actual album. Sussannah contributed more to the album if you want to argue like that, but they really didn't add much to the album. As you can hear most of it is solo Prince and he sounds so much better, personally I wish he had held off on releasing the album a bit longer and had rerecorded IGBABN with the new band as it sounds much better with them. But that's just my personal opinion and what I wish had happened.

Wendy & Lisa aren't as important as the fandom makes it out to be, I think people just cling on to Nostalgia too much on here and create things to fit their ideal timeline. They were more important to previous albums, he was trying to distance himself, notice how everything they did in Strange Relationship doesn't even exist really. Once we have the version before they touch it, we can see exactly what they added and how much of it changed from the original to the released version.

This right here

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Reply #202 posted 11/26/20 8:27am

tab32792

OldFriends4Sale said:

SoulAlive said:

watch one of the SOTT or Lovesexy shows and it's clear that Prince could have never done those type of shows with the Revolution.

They easily could have done it.

I'm listening to a Parade tour rehearsal. It's amazing

.

Controversy - Dream Factory
Do Me Baby (funkier and steamier and beautiful, than IIWYG on the SOTT tour)

Girls & Boys
Life Can Be So Nice (the odd complexity of this song and how they controlled and stretched it with speeds and breaks)
17 Days

The Ladder

.

And also the the March 8th 1982 First Avenue Show

.

1. Bambi
2. All The Critics Love U In New York
3. When You Were Mine
4. Sexy Dancer
5. Still Waiting
6. Head
7. Sexuality

.

AHHRRRRHHH I wish I could post links lol

I'm confused as to what this even means lol The Revolution could not do housequake, ballad of dorothy parker, now's the time, four, etc. But the SOTT/LS band could do their songs forwards and backwards. The Revolution get smoked on their own song (IGBABN)

Do Me Baby is a great song and I love the Parade tour version but it's only steamier as you put it cause it's a sex song. IIWYG is not so that's a lazy and stupid comparison.

Nothing about that first avenue show is as complex or better than any of the aftershows from 87-88.

P loved James Brown. He ran through Bodyheat more than he ran through some of his own songs. It's a very simple and straight up funk number than i personally like when the Revolution do it but when he got with the next group, look at the choice in JB cover (Mother Popcorn) much faster and more complex drumming wise cause he knew Bobby Z could not do ANYTHING Sheila E. does.

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Reply #203 posted 11/26/20 8:32am

tab32792

OldFriends4Sale said:

JoeyCococo said:

I think I get why he broke them up...likely many reasons. I think he definitely out grew them in terms of talent, capability...you can see how he blew up with better musicians after. His shows were so much more musical. Besides this, we all know he had that itch to change all the time. He proved that he never stayed with the same band for very long although the NPG lasted a long while and some players, Rhonda, Morris stayed longer then most.

However, I believe 'Management' had something to do with dropped the Rev. I am just guessing that Wendy and Lisa (prob the former more) became too much of a hassle to bother with and he decided..f it, i'm starting over. Sure, their threat of leaving prob also got him going...but I really believe...he was not the kind to put up with BS. As is with human nature, the ladies prob felt like 'partners' and not employees and Prince did not like it.

Prince basically stated in the 1990 interview that is was more of an emotional friend/employer-employee thing

which connects to him dedicating In This Bed I Scream to them in 1997

But the emotional friend/employer-employee thing was connected to Vanity, the Time as well

.

But after 1986 the colorful innovation of Purple Music dried up. It tappered out through the 87-88/89 period, of course because it's all fresh out of there. But after that 1981-1986/7 period it was not the same

Why do so many Prince fans equate this so called lack of innovation later on with lack of quality? Music is a young man's sport. Prince had a hell of a hot streak for i'd say 10 years. Once he became established sound and image wise, he played what he wanted. Doesn't mean it wasn't good. You just didn't like it and that's ok

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Reply #204 posted 11/26/20 8:37am

tab32792

imprimis said:

Greg Brooks' & Wally Safford's influence + spurred by criticism in the media the previous year, an unevenly received exchanging rock god status for a soul band revue frontman act (with a rough landing, by abandoning the Minneapolis sound about a year sooner than perhaps would have been in his longer-term career and financial interests) + his own stylistic challenges in adapting to rapidly shifting currents in commercial music in the latter part of the mid-1980s, which he appears to deny and distract himself from by indulging in "art pop" delittantism and back-to-basics homages to the idols of his youth (in which process he may have opened the floodgates to too much Coleman/Melvoin involvement) + the failure/underperformance of UTCM/Parade + infidelities and an increasingly acrimonious relationship with Susannah Melvoin + his desire to replace Bobby Z with Sheila for several years + the continued temptation of pursuing a dual career in film = all brought to bear that his backing band had outlived its polite fiction of being billed as true collaborators on every level. With Paisley Park getting closer to completion, and in light of declining sales, the WB corporatocracy also likely prodded a bit for a 'refresh' as a producer, and a fortified brand as simply 'Prince', to refocus him and walk him back from the excesses.

.

Bobby Z recounts 'trouble in Paradise' even before the often repeated airport incident.

.

Going into 1986, I don't believe he had serious plans (deep within) for 'the Revolution' to remain after touring beyond one more major (post-Parade) album release.

.

I believe some of the W&L-heavy tracks from early and mid-1986 were recorded as "going away gifts" (of varying and often marginal quality), for a firing he knew would come within the intermediate future; he gave them a moment to shine, and it would be something for his former backing partners to reflect back on in the experience; when push came to shove, many of these were not release-worthy for an artist of his stature at the time, and he had to have known it; the personal tensions and commercial pressures just expedited this decision by about 6-12 months.

.

However, that isn't to say that he was always better off with his revamped sound and refashioned image, in the immediate aftermath of breaking up.

.

Other groups popular 1981-1985 disbanded for good around this time (Wham, Culture Club, Thompson Twins, etc).

.

1986, in general, was a 'Great Reset' year where the surviving conventions from the first half of 1980s died a full death.

.

[Edited 11/5/20 19:15pm]

He never intended on the Revolution to go far with him. That's just not who he was and this was evident later on. You need different people around you to draw inspiration from. Miles Davis is famous for this. The change also didn't come out of nowhere like they like to have folks believe. Prince wanted Sheila to be his drummer when he met her. She was swapping Bobby out for her during purple rain tour soundchecks. That is a fact. The flesh sessions are where he first started playing wtih musicians that weren't his primary touring band (eric, levi and sheila)

He was over that period and moved on to new musicians and styles. It's very simple and less complex.

To answer the original question before the thread got derailed per usual, idk about the right decision but it was a good one. The band that followed had way more power and versatility and could improvise.

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Reply #205 posted 11/26/20 8:38am

tab32792

OldFriends4Sale said:

a lyrical response by 0+> that shows his dispanding Wendy & Lisa was an intimate thing, not business. And it is my belief that this sentiment extends to the Revolution and the Time. When he said in 1998 that the people in his camp/bands in that 80s period was a 'Community ie family' How we look at his relationship with this group of people vs later group/NPG is not the same. Most of these people he know in various was 'Before fame' or before 'Hollywood' kicked in. There is no one anyone who came after 87 was not going to see Prince as a CELEBRITY and Boss.

.

To these walls I talk
Tellin' 'em what I wasn't strong enough 2 say
To these walls I talk
Tellin' 'em how I cried the day you went away

How did we ever lose communication?
How did we ever lose each other's sound?
Baby, if you wanna, we can fix the situation
Maybe we can stop the rain from coming down

Yeah

In this bed I scream
Lonely nights I lay awake thinking of you
And if I'm cursed with a dream
A thousand times I feel whatever I've put you through

Tell me, how're we gonna put this back together?
How're we gonna think with the same mind?
Knowing all along that life is so much better
Living and loving together all the time

Living and loving

In this bed I, in this bed I, in this bed I scream

In this car I drive
I'm looking for the road that leads back to the...

In this car I drive
I'm looking for the road that leads back to the soul we shared
With my very life
I'd gladly be the body upon the cross we bear (Cross we bear)

How did we ever lose communication? (How did we?)
How did we ever lose each other's sound? (I don't know)
Baby, if you wanna, we can fix the situation
Maybe we can stop the rain from coming down

Maybe we can't, maybe we can
Stop the rain, stop the rain

In this bed I, in this bed I, in this bed I scream
I scream

In this bed I scream

Sonny T, Maceo Parker and Larry Graham would all like to have a word with you.

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Reply #206 posted 11/27/20 11:23am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

tab32792 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

a lyrical response by 0+> that shows his dispanding Wendy & Lisa was an intimate thing, not business. And it is my belief that this sentiment extends to the Revolution and the Time. When he said in 1998 that the people in his camp/bands in that 80s period was a 'Community ie family' How we look at his relationship with this group of people vs later group/NPG is not the same. Most of these people he know in various was 'Before fame' or before 'Hollywood' kicked in. There is no one anyone who came after 87 was not going to see Prince as a CELEBRITY and Boss.

.

To these walls I talk
Tellin' 'em what I wasn't strong enough 2 say
To these walls I talk
Tellin' 'em how I cried the day you went away

How did we ever lose communication?
How did we ever lose each other's sound?
Baby, if you wanna, we can fix the situation
Maybe we can stop the rain from coming down

Yeah

In this bed I scream
Lonely nights I lay awake thinking of you
And if I'm cursed with a dream
A thousand times I feel whatever I've put you through

Tell me, how're we gonna put this back together?
How're we gonna think with the same mind?
Knowing all along that life is so much better
Living and loving together all the time

Living and loving

In this bed I, in this bed I, in this bed I scream

In this car I drive
I'm looking for the road that leads back to the...

In this car I drive
I'm looking for the road that leads back to the soul we shared
With my very life
I'd gladly be the body upon the cross we bear (Cross we bear)

How did we ever lose communication? (How did we?)
How did we ever lose each other's sound? (I don't know)
Baby, if you wanna, we can fix the situation
Maybe we can stop the rain from coming down

Maybe we can't, maybe we can
Stop the rain, stop the rain

In this bed I, in this bed I, in this bed I scream
I scream

In this bed I scream

Sonny T, Maceo Parker and Larry Graham would all like to have a word with you.

Still as a Celebrity. Even if Celebrity to Celebrity. But I can give a deeper answer later. Going out shopping and family stuff.

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
It’s unloving and selfish to be easily offended
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Reply #207 posted 11/27/20 12:29pm

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

If the 80s bands were like family then I pity the bands that came after lol
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Reply #208 posted 11/27/20 5:33pm

Dalia11

Did Prince Disband the Revolution or did the Revolution disband from Prince

Musicians have "Strong Egos" and do not always like to work in a group or follow orders!

I started singing with Mr. Cipullo's Choir at Bronx Community College in 1999( when I was 23 years old). There were times when I did not go to rehearsal or sing a solo or sing with the chorus group because I did not like a song that we had to sing! 😃
[Edited 11/27/20 17:45pm]
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